Author Topic: Winter work  (Read 605 times)

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Offline CL-100

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Re: Winter work
« Reply #20 on: March 31, 2019, 03:14:38 PM »
Although it's Spring time now, I did this work a few months ago.  This is still the parts motor I bought in the Fall and my first attempt at removing a cylinder with a stuck piston.  Oddly, on the right side of the engine the piston was free but the majority of the abuse and corrosion on this engine is on the right side.  The inside of the cylinders are clean with no damage or chips in the chrome lining.  I started with a couple of different cans of penetrating oil, a wooden dowel, rubber mallet, and a lot of patience.  No joy.  I decided to drop the lower case and see if that helped somehow.  That really just made the management of the pieces more trouble.  The top portion of the piston with the rings was visible through the exhaust port but nothing I did would move it up or down in the cylinder.  Eventually I came up with the scheme you can see in the first picture.  I was able to get the cylinder up and put some steel spacers between the cylinder and the top case.  I used a large heavy-duty puller and mounted two of the three legs diagonally on the cylinder.  I usually use this puller, from Tusk, to split crankcases and remove crank covers.  I was able to thread the center bolt down on to the piston and using a larger ratchet and more oil, I eventually pushed the piston down the cylinder until it was resting on the crankcase top.  Although it didn't push the piston out of the cylinder, it pushed it down far enough to get to the wrist pin.  I rigged up a homemade puller and with long 8mm bolts/nuts, multiple washers and a socket that allowed me to pull the pin far enough out of the connecting rod, I got the cylinder and piston off.  Once the cylinder was off I was able to set the cylinder on some wooden blocks and push the piston the remaining way out of the cylinder with more oil, the wooden dowel and a rubber mallet.  If you look at the second picture, the piston on the left was the one stuck and you can see a dimple on the top from the threaded bolt pushing it down.  The rings are deeply seated and stuck in the landings.  The other piston is the right side piston after I cleaned it up.  I'm still surprised that the inside of the cylinders are undamaged. 

Not sure I'm looking to dismantle a stuck motor again anytime soon, but it does teach you a lot.

« Last Edit: March 31, 2019, 03:48:32 PM by CL-100 »

Offline OldSwartout

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Re: Winter work
« Reply #21 on: March 31, 2019, 04:35:00 PM »
Nice job getting that apart, especially, without further damage! I'm not sure I'd have the patience.
Karl Swartout
Mooresville, IN
BS175 Roadracer
BS350 GTR

Offline slawsonb

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Re: Winter work
« Reply #22 on: March 31, 2019, 05:14:08 PM »
The last motor I unstuck (word?) taught me that I have very little patience...lol. I have one on the bench right now that is a 10 on the stuckness scale. One side was perfect, but on the other had been left with no spark plug so the cylinder was open to the elements and filled with water. I've given up twice and I'm not sure I'll get back to it. C'est la vie!
...bert

Offline CL-100

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Re: Winter work
« Reply #23 on: April 01, 2019, 07:50:07 AM »
I once worked with a City Manager that had a sign in his office reading "Patience is an over-rated virtue."  Fortunately for me, I outlasted his tenure. 

Offline BRT-GTR

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Re: Winter work
« Reply #24 on: April 01, 2019, 07:51:44 AM »
        That's one corroded piston, well done on getting it out with no damage to the chrome or cylinder spigots. Very satisfying !

        Crank and cases  useable ?
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Offline CL-100

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Re: Winter work
« Reply #25 on: April 01, 2019, 08:02:44 AM »
The crankcases turned out to be one of the better parts.  I needed to replace the damaged cases from another set.  The numbers on this set happen to be within two hundred of the damaged cases.  I'm working on my third 350 project bike and have now collected all parts needed for a fourth 350 motor.  I really enjoy the restoration of the engines more than any other phase of a project.  I'm going to shift to 175/200 engines next. 

Offline Jeff McBrayer

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Re: Winter work
« Reply #26 on: April 01, 2019, 09:29:11 AM »
You really do nice work, always enjoy your postings, Thanks

Jeff McBrayer
Great BS site

Offline bsracer

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Re: Winter work
« Reply #27 on: April 01, 2019, 10:34:48 AM »
I picked up a SR175 recently. Surprisingly most everything has come apart without too much effort. Except for one of the cylinders. The first one came off with some struggle at first then came free. With some over excitement thinking the second one would be similar, the spigot broke. Never had one this stuck before.

paul

Offline CL-100

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Re: Winter work
« Reply #28 on: April 01, 2019, 02:21:31 PM »
First of all, congratulations on getting a SR175.  I saw one several years ago at Barber that had been restored.  It had previously been raced and still had an extended swingarm on it.  Today, I would jump on the opportunity to restore one. 

Since you've already separated the top and bottom cases like I did let me tell you in more detail how I proceeded.  Maybe some of this will work for you too.  First of all, my small workshop is in the basement of my home and if I use any sort of petroleum based solvent, my wife says she can smell it upstairs.  Makes her unhappy and we all know how that works.  If you want to try and push it out the bottom as I did, you can start by propping the upper case, crank, and cylinder in a plastic tub.  I did this to get the piston as level as possible so that the penetrating oil would sit in the perimeter of the cylinder.  Putting it in the tub let me set the tub in a storage shed, separate from the basement and contain any leaking fluids.  Happy wife, happy life.  After a while I noticed that the oil was penetrating slowly so I decided to take it up a notch.  Once the puller was in place as a pusher I would put some tension on the piston, soak it penetrating oil and leave it sit for a least one day.  When I went back to it, I could tighten the bolt down some and the piston would pop and move down the cylinder a little.  Sometimes I could get it to move two or three times before it would bind again.  I'd put it under tension and soak it again for another day or more.  More popping and slow progress, but it was moving.  I probably did this for two weeks before the piston skirt made contact with the upper case.  When the piston pops, it's loud and you're sure that something broke.  It always amazed me that the cylinder lining wasn't marked or damaged at all.  I assume that my judicious use of penetrating oil helped.  I probably used three spray cans worth of the oil.  By the way, PB Blaster has never worked for me and it smells bad.  I was also able to get the cylinder out of the upper case even though the piston was still connected to the rod and crank.  If you can, it helps to space the bottom of the cylinder from the upper case as you do this.  It would be way easier to get that piston out if it were separated from the connecting rod and crank.  I chose to do it the hard way in order to preserve those parts.  In the end, I soaked the crank, with all the bearings and connecting rods in place, in Evaporust for about two months.  There was so much dried oil and gas on the parts I couldn't tell for sure what was corrosion and what was gunk.  This is still the dirtiest motor I have ever seen.  It turned out to be more corrosion that gunk and I'm not sure the crank can be salvaged without some grinding on the webs.  And then there's the ever elusive hunt for two outer bearings.  I always thought that if I were to do this again, I'd try using an ATF and MEK mix for at least the first part of the soaking process.  Dangerous stuff and I'd probably not let it sit inside the house or shed. 

Now that I've written this, I guess it depends on where the piston is in the cylinder before deciding the best way to proceed.  Good Luck and be patient.  Sometimes you just have to walk away from it for a while.

Rowland

Offline CL-100

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Re: Winter work
« Reply #29 on: April 01, 2019, 02:28:42 PM »
Jeff, thanks for the compliment. 

Offline slawsonb

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Re: Winter work
« Reply #30 on: April 01, 2019, 06:38:56 PM »
Wow Paul, that is a dead ringer for the motor I'm exasperated with (other than being a 175). Some of these old stuck motors are probably beyond saving (sacrilegious on this site, I know...;-)
...bert 

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Re: Winter work
« Reply #31 on: April 02, 2019, 11:12:33 AM »
I've had some pretty good luck in the past. I've been working on old stuff going back to Vespas and Lambrettas back in the 80's. Using a puller to try and push against the piston and it broke on this one. It's sitting soaking while I get my 175 racer ready for my first race toward the end of the month.

paul

Offline Steve Swan

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Re: Winter work
« Reply #32 on: April 05, 2019, 05:49:30 PM »
BRAVISSIMO !!!!!

Although it's Spring time now, I did this work a few months ago.  This is still the parts motor I bought in the Fall and my first attempt at removing a cylinder with a stuck piston.  Oddly, on the right side of the engine the piston was free but the majority of the abuse and corrosion on this engine is on the right side.  The inside of the cylinders are clean with no damage or chips in the chrome lining.  I started with a couple of different cans of penetrating oil, a wooden dowel, rubber mallet, and a lot of patience.  No joy.  I decided to drop the lower case and see if that helped somehow.  That really just made the management of the pieces more trouble.  The top portion of the piston with the rings was visible through the exhaust port but nothing I did would move it up or down in the cylinder.  Eventually I came up with the scheme you can see in the first picture.  I was able to get the cylinder up and put some steel spacers between the cylinder and the top case.  I used a large heavy-duty puller and mounted two of the three legs diagonally on the cylinder.  I usually use this puller, from Tusk, to split crankcases and remove crank covers.  I was able to thread the center bolt down on to the piston and using a larger ratchet and more oil, I eventually pushed the piston down the cylinder until it was resting on the crankcase top.  Although it didn't push the piston out of the cylinder, it pushed it down far enough to get to the wrist pin.  I rigged up a homemade puller and with long 8mm bolts/nuts, multiple washers and a socket that allowed me to pull the pin far enough out of the connecting rod, I got the cylinder and piston off.  Once the cylinder was off I was able to set the cylinder on some wooden blocks and push the piston the remaining way out of the cylinder with more oil, the wooden dowel and a rubber mallet.  If you look at the second picture, the piston on the left was the one stuck and you can see a dimple on the top from the threaded bolt pushing it down.  The rings are deeply seated and stuck in the landings.  The other piston is the right side piston after I cleaned it up.  I'm still surprised that the inside of the cylinders are undamaged. 

Not sure I'm looking to dismantle a stuck motor again anytime soon, but it does teach you a lot.

Offline moonpup

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Re: Winter work
« Reply #33 on: April 06, 2019, 12:23:57 PM »
Patience..... something I ran out of!
Confucius say... "Better to have Bridgestone than Kidneystone"

Offline AlanJohn

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Re: Winter work
« Reply #34 on: April 06, 2019, 01:08:04 PM »
That's a club l definitely joined

Offline Mopar392

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Re: Winter work
« Reply #35 on: April 06, 2019, 07:47:29 PM »
Yep, I'm a member of that club too DM!

Offline AlanJohn

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Re: Winter work
« Reply #36 on: April 07, 2019, 03:47:24 AM »
l wonder how many are in this club?
Time to own up.
It's strange that on programs like wheeler dealers on the telly everything comes apart easily and goes back together just the same surely it's time to see them (mechanics) lose there temper and break something rather than watch the perfect world they live in ld like to see them unsieze a 175 hurricane that's a programme ld watch

Offline BRT-GTR

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Re: Winter work
« Reply #37 on: April 08, 2019, 07:43:58 AM »
              Yep, me too.      I've beaten parts to death in sheer frsutration when they wouldn't come apart  :'(  .    Fortunately, not when working on a Bridgestone....................... can't just go down to the scrap yard and get another one  :( .
« Last Edit: April 09, 2019, 05:17:13 PM by BRT-GTR »
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Offline OldSwartout

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Re: Winter work
« Reply #38 on: April 08, 2019, 08:14:53 AM »
             ... can't just go down to the scrap yard and get another one  :( .

But there's always E-bay. You can usually find one that someone else has beaten apart.  ;D
Karl Swartout
Mooresville, IN
BS175 Roadracer
BS350 GTR

 


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