Bridgestone Motorcycle Parts Discussion Board
General Category => General Discussion => Topic started by: fiction on August 06, 2015, 07:17:11 AM
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Am i the last person in the world to find out thre is a screwdriver specifically made to fit Japanese screws.i bought a set of screws to fit the gtr and got information with them to make sure I used the correct screwdriver .i found a set on eBay ,made by vessel, never seen any before always used pozi ,Phillips ,or star none are very good on Japanese screws.
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You should find the Vessel screwdrivers a big improvement on what you've been using, as they're designed specifically for JIS. I've been using them for a while now and even tight screws can be undone without leaving any marks. They're not cheap but a good investment.
Steve
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Yes I've invested in a set last month , they work great ,just thought I'd spread the word .surely I'm not the only person not to know about these screwdrivers.
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To be honest I'd never heard of Vessel screwdrivers and I've been restoring Japanese motorcycles for a good while now, I use a quality screwdriver with a selection of bits and have had no problem as long as I'm careful but I will be looking at these screwdrivers and possibly ordering one now they have been brought to my attention. Thanks.
Z
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Good catch fiction! it makes sense to me now since I have always found the screws on my 350 finicky and have had occasion to damage a few screws when they were stuck. I too will be looking into this. Thanks! I guess old dogs are never too old to learn a new trick. ;D
...bert
Found this pic that explains why you need a different screwdriver.
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Here's a neat little Bridgestone set I found whilst surfn' the net. Looks like it has 2 JIS/Phillips, 2 flat head, 2 sockets, a file, a hammer and whatever the thing is 2nd. from the end on the right....
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Here's a link to a Motion Pro T driver with JIS 1,2 & 3 bits. Less than $30 on eBay. Check them out, Steve
http://m.ebay.com/itm/Motion-Pro-T-Handle-Bit-Driver-with-No-1-2-3-JIS-Cross-Head-Bits-08-0557-/111753791421?nav=WATCHING_ACTIVE (http://m.ebay.com/itm/Motion-Pro-T-Handle-Bit-Driver-with-No-1-2-3-JIS-Cross-Head-Bits-08-0557-/111753791421?nav=WATCHING_ACTIVE)
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I had a buddy give me a set of Vessel screw drivers. He told me that the Japo screws that those were intended for had a small hole or dot stamped into the head of the screw,,,, I stole this photo from Google images....
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I looked at many NOS and original screws for my BS90's and can not find one with a dimple/dot on the head. Is this a modern marking? Where can JIS M6 engine case screws be purchased? (Other than Richard) Any help or suggestions would be appreciated. Thanks, Steve
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Steve,
This is the company we use in the UK. http://www.mrmegapack.co.uk/bzp-philips-screws---m6-21022-p.asp (http://www.mrmegapack.co.uk/bzp-philips-screws---m6-21022-p.asp)
The screws don't have the JIS dot but are a good fit on JIS drivers and the head closely matches the BS originals. Had a look at my collection of original BS 5/6mm case screws and they don't have the dot. Sure I've seen them on the odd screw in the past but can't find one.
Know we've said this before, surely there is someone in the US who can supply these. Order them from the UK and you too can enjoy the pain of all the import charges, duty and tax that we in the UK suffer when buying stuff from the US. :D ;D :D Brian.
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I think I posted this before, but a seller "stampman" on ebay sells a bag of 50 6mm screws that closely match the old screws for $25. I'm not certain if they are JIS or not, but they have the head shape of the old screws, not the modern shape you get at the hardware store today.
Search for "bridgestone screws" or the seller's name. He also sells packages for other bikes, just varies the quantity and lengths.
You may want to use Richard for specific screws if you need a few or want the exact originals, but the assortment is handy to have around for other bikes and uses besides your Bridgestone and good for those times when you drop and lose one, or inadvertently mess up the head of one and want a quick replacement.
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I have purchased screws from both stampman and mrmegapack. They have what you are looking for. Obviously cheaper from the US than the UK for those of us on the west side of the pond. btw, mrmegapack is the only one I have found that offers the 5mm 350 air case screws.
...bert
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As I've been preparing my GTR in readiness for the Stafford Classic Bike Show next weekend I noticed that the 5 and 6mm screws supplied by mrmegapak all have the dot on the head.
As stated above JIS screws have a dot mark on the head which clearly identifies them as JIS profile screws.
Z
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Hi Z,
The 5x0.9 and 6 mm screws I got from mrmagapack do not have the dot unfortunately, did I order the wrong ones? Brian.
Correction :- Somehow, overnight the 5X0.9 screws have gained JIS dots. Just had a cataract done so must have missed them :( :o
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Thanks for the replies guys! I just checked some original used 6mm screws and some NOS ones, they do not have any dots. I ordered some NOS screws from another US vendor. Here's a picture of some originals that are a little messed up and some NOS with p/n, but don't have a dot. They're all JIS.
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Hi Brian, I just ordered the screws and that's how they came, personally I'm not bothered if they have dots or not just as long as they all match.
Z
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I expect the dots are a contemporary approach to differentiate JIS screws. This would make it possible to sort mixed stock. I would not expect that BS used screws with these marks since their only stock was JIS and there was not the worldwide environment in which we find ourselves. My theory...thoughts?
...bert
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I'm fairly certain the dots to denote JIS are a later addition. Original screws on my '67 350, '65 90 do not have the dot, and I don't remember ever seeing the dot till after BS had stopped production. As said above, the need to differentiate JIS came about later as the economy became global.
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I have disassembled 3 '67 GTR's and several spare 350 motors and not a single screw that I have observed had a dot. Just more data for the discussion.
...bert
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Oops! made a mistake. The 6mm screws on my GTR have no dot so are ISO whereas the 5mm ones do and are JIS. :-[
Z
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Z, See my correction above. Look forward to seeing you and the second GTR at Stafford. Good luck with the awards.
Did a little research on JIS. Cross head screws are covered by JIS B 1012, established in 1958, revised 64, 74 and 85. Without buying a copy of the documents, they don't say when the dot identifier was introduced. Most sites quote the 1985 revision, I think this is the most likely date.
More information here http://www.instructables.com/id/When-a-Phillips-is-not-a-Phillips-Plus-So-Much-Mor/step59/JIS-Japanese-Industrial-Standard/ (http://www.instructables.com/id/When-a-Phillips-is-not-a-Phillips-Plus-So-Much-Mor/step59/JIS-Japanese-Industrial-Standard/)
The standard does seem to apply to the cross head shape only but may have covered the screw pitch. As well documented on our site and to help new members the 3,4,5,10 & 12mm screws used by BS have a different pitch to current ISO screws. Luckily the 6 & 8mm (most engine bolts) are interchangeable with ISO.
Another piece in the jigsaw, Brian.
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Hi, Fellas,
I always understood that the dot marking on the head indicated an ISO thread. In the case of the case of 6mm and 8mm fasteners the dot is somewhat irrelevant as the ISO and pre-ISU thread pitches are the same. In the case of 5mm (and smaller) fasteners. the ISO fasteners have a slightly finer thread pitch. As Bridgestones were all manufactured prior to 1971, they would have left the factory with pre-ISO fasteners. Over the years since then it is likely that various fasteners have been replaced, so they would have the "ISO" dot on them because that was all there was available.
Graham
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Thanks Brian and Graham! Great info, as always. I tried to contact stampman on eBay. He didn't reply. I don't need complete sets. I already have several NOS replacements. I know I can probably get them from Richard. I only need a few screws. Thanks for the input, Steve
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Just gets curiouser and curiouser ::)
Graham is right once again, the dot indicates an ISO thread and probably an ISO screw head. See the article below, seems there are ISO drivers as well. JIS and ISO drivers have good compatibility. Just don't use phillips or pozidrive drivers on your BS screws.
See ' Tech tip of the Month' towards the bottom http://modelenginenews.org/ed.2011.04.html#tt (http://modelenginenews.org/ed.2011.04.html#tt)
My vessel drivers are marked P2 and P3 which doesn't help. I now suspect they actually have an ISO tip form which will happily work in JIS screws.
Is that all clear then ??? :o :D ;D :D Brian.
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Exceedingly clear...lol
Thanks for the effort to clear this up Brian and Graham. Very helpful. ;D
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My JIS screwdriver.... nuff said ;D
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I just bought one of these Motion Pro T-Handles.
http://www.motionpro.com/motorcycle/partno/08-0557/ (http://www.motionpro.com/motorcycle/partno/08-0557/)
Simply wonderful!
Ever try removing the long side screws from a 350 or 175 dynamo? Hard to do without damaging the screw heads, right? :( :o >:(
I clamped a dynamo up in my soft jaw vise, and using the #3 JIS bit provided with the handle, a light twist with the mechanical advantage of the T and both came out with ease and no apparent damage to the heads. ;D ;) ;D
Also makes cake of removing stubborn case screws.
Highly recommended tool. I have always had excellent results with Motion Pro stuff. (Not a paid advertisement...;-).
...bert
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Thanks Bert.... you just cost me $28 buckaroos!
Your dang glowing recommendation of that T-handle screwdriver had me so mesmerized I couldn’t control myself...... ;D
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Sorry, was not my intent to mesmerize. Guess I should buy you a virtual beer!
...bert
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Shiner Bock please..... 8)
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Comin' right up!
More comment about the tool described above.
I am working on an engine that has internal rust issues and several of the case screws are severely rusted (rotary valve cover in this case) and I have not been able to simply twist them out. Screws with compromised head integrity (rust or deformation from previous abuse) still require other extraction means. It can't make a bad screw good, darn!
...bert
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I just ordered six of the replacement bits. They come in packs of two size #1, #2 and #3 for $3.50 each. I ordered one of each with shipping for $12.54. Called Motion Pro direct at (650) 594-9600. 6mm engine case screws are size #3. Like Bert I was able to disassemble a 90 engine without marking/marring any of the screws. Good luck, Steve