Bridgestone Motorcycle Parts Discussion Board
Bridgestone Tech Talk => 350 Talk => Topic started by: dcr on January 31, 2016, 09:32:22 PM
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Picked up my "new" 350 GTR on Saturday. Frame tag number 21F06232 with 3713 original miles. According to the serial number guide it is a 1968, but this bike was originally registered and titled as a 1971 Brig & Strat Motorcycle. The original '71 registration card was with the bike and to show how small the world really is, it turns out that I went to high school with the original owners son. The notary that is handling the title transfer is attempting to clean up the year and name - we shall see how it goes.
Overall, the bike is in really good shape considering it hasn't run in years. There are a few items missing, like the exhaust baffles and the front brake handle plus a bolt or 2, but the motor appears to be in great shape. The cylinders walls look really good, the heads are intact but the pistons are kinds burnt below the rings. At least the cylinders are ready to go and wont need re-plated.
The biggest issue at this point appears to be the wiring harness. There is no key with the bike and someone hacked the daylights out of the harness to bypass the ignition. There are wires cut, taped, stripped and hanging loose.
At this point, I am disassembling the bike for a thorough cleaning and de-greasing. In all likelihood I will just clean and reassemble since they are only original once.
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I haven't really dug into the tank yet, but there is definitely something "suspicious" about it. It has a solid sound when I tap on it and a lot of goop around the bung. My early suspicions are it leaked around the bung and someone tried to seal the tank with something to cure the leak. I took the fuel petcock apart and it is all gummed up with something that looks like 30 year old epoxy. It chips off fairly easily but that's a project for later.
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Dan,
It looks like a great find.
Enjoy the adventure of bring it back to life.
Randy
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Great looking bike! Looks like a fun project.
The tank fitting looks like it might be a challenge, hope it cleans up ok.
The pistons really look pretty good. They look good on the skirts, and that's just carbon deposits on the upper part which should clean up well. Depending on the mileage and the clearances a new set of rings is probably the only thing I'd replace.,
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Dan
Bike looks like a great find. Any engine that turns over and has good bores is a winner.
One of my bikes came with a tank that sounded and felt like it was half full of cement ! Your tank is likely loaded up with 30 year old petrol residue and rust. Used the instructions that come with the 'Tapox' sealing kit to clean mine out as follows :-
1) Rinse for an hour with 50cc of washing up liquid and a litre of warm water.
2) Second 1 hour rinse with half litre of alkaline(waterbased) cleaner. Think I used 'Flash' available in the UK.
3) Finally used the UK equivalent of Evaporust, with a good hand full 6mm stainless nuts. Kept turning it round and giving it a good shake, swilling the nuts along the base
of the tank, for about 48hours.
Unfortunately, the tank may develop pin holes as you clean it out but these can be soldered or brazed up. This is what came out of mine. Brian.
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Dan, I expect your petcock will clean up well. Not the worst I've seen for sure. Just takes dedication and time...;-) And to echo some other posters, its a great day when you have a motor with good cylinder chrome and a free crank. Sky's the limit.
Congrats and good luck!
...bert
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I spent about an hour last night on the petcock and it did clean up very well. Inside was clean although the smaller tube was packed with crud. I will start to examine and work on the fuel tank one day this week.
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Looks like an excellent bike to restore. I hope the clutch plates are in good shape. Blizzard in Nebraska today so I am spending some time on my neglected 350.....Rod
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2 broken friction plates and 2 inner plates worn down past the dimples.
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I'd swear someone dumped a large can of coffee grounds into the fuel tank. This isn't even half based on what I can see still in there. Tapping on the tank with a rubber mallet got this loose but now its on to lacquer thinner, a handful of loose nuts, shaking/rolling, soap and hot water, evaporust and whatever else it takes to clean this mess.
EDIT - Forgot to point out how bad it smells. Oil/gas or some other heavy petroleum based smell. (or all of the above)
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It looks like that is the remains of some kind of sealer like you guessed in your earlier post. Really nasty looking.
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Looks like the guy was trying to burn coal! Yikes!! ::) ??? ::)
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Good news from the Pennsylvania DMV. The title came in the mail yesterday and the make and year have been corrected. Instead of a 1971 Briggs & Stratton, my title now reflects a 1968 Bridgestone MC.
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Glad to see you got that straightened out Dan, it's amazing how muddled the info on these can get.
I had a GTR that came with a title that listed it as an "Allstate", along with 3 or 4 wrong numbers in the serial number. Turns out it had one mistake too many for the state of TX to be willing to make corrections. >:(
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High School baseball season has once again slowed all things Bridgestone to a grinding halt. I finally got the motor put back together and in the bike. I've got some wiring to clean up as the previous owner tried the "no key" approach and made some changes as well as the main ground and main hot wires are missing. Also need to get some tank work done. In one of the pictures I posted here you can see the painted over buildup around the fuel valve. I ground it all away as it leaked there anyway and found it was some type of really hard compound designed to stop the fuel leak - which didn't completely solve the issue. The bung almost fell out when i removed said compound so i removed it and cleaned up the surrounding area. I'll get that brazed in at some point, hopefully soon. I still have to get the rest of that goop out of the tank so maybe this will make it a bit easier.
Other than that, it's almost completely back together after a thorough cleaning and degreasing. Hoping to have it running in the next few weeks.
Dan
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Pa is a good place to get a title, I got a title for a 4 wheeler and the girl had me put her name on the letter, i paid the tax and she got me the title. I live in WV.
Stick
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When I stripped the motor to clean things up and inspect the internals, I found that one of the fork guide pins (2113-9000) was really chewed up on the left end. I pulled the motor completely apart and got a replacement part from Moonpup with the idea of simply swapping out the pin.
When I put them back together, the pin is shorter than it needs to be, but the 2 originals and the replacement are all the same length. Looking at the parts manual, part number 2139-9000, 8 plug, appears to be a piece that sits in the left side of the motor case that would take up the slack and make the fork guide pin the correct length. The opening for both guide pins on the left side of the case has dimples like a plug was originally peened in there and that would make a lot of sense.
Am I correct that there is a piece that goes in there and if so, anyone happen to know the correct length of that piece? I figure I can make one out of the old shift guide if this issue is what i suspect it is.
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Hey Dan. Thanks for bringing this up. I just looked at the lower case I had vapor blasted not long ago (motor number NA1-01351) and in both holes for the shift fork guide pins there are dowels peened in at end to serve as stops. They are in there tight, so I can't tell you the length, but 09056-102 4 X 8 dowel would probably be the same length. In my situation they appear to be the same part/length. My parts manual indicates a screw to hold 2113-9000 in place, but it is not present in my case. While doing this examination, I also found a ton of vapor blasting abrasive built up in these holes that I had failed to clean out. Glad you made me look, so that stuff did not come adrift in my transmission. ;D ;D ;D
...bert
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Bert - thanks for the input and glad this worked out for you.
Any chance you can measure the depth of the remaining hole with the plug in to get a number? I can work backwards from that. My plan is to use the old guide pin and make a plug from that and re-peen it in.
I see no evidence of a screw to secure mine either. Just 2 dimples from the peening to hold them in - which didn't seem to be very effective in my case.
Dan
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Hi Dan,
The hole for the left end of the rear guide pin is 15mm deep, indicating the plug is 8mm long approx.
Suggest you insert the rear pin in it's holes, push it against it's right stopper plate, then measure the depth of the hole at the left end. Subtract 1mm to allow for end float and that's the length of the plug required.
Remember the plugs needs to be oil tight and are probably an interference fit in the crankcase, so a piece of old guide pin may not provide a suitable fit.
Bert, Is there a part or index no. for the screw for 2113-9000 you refer to?
Hope this helps, Brian.
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My error Brian. What appears to be a screw in the drawing is called out as Item 33 2137-9000 8 Rubber Plug. Good idea on the measurement technique. Until this thread, I had not realized there were dowels peened into the case to stop the fork guide pins. I am always learning something from this group and these motorcycles! Happy day! ;D
...bert
I guess my other quandary is, if the dowel stops need to be interference fit (and I agree they should be), why would they be missing in DCR's motor? Vely intelestink! This is a topic, I think other members should weigh in on. Dowels missing? Other fixes? etc...
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Picked up a "new" tank recently. It's in really good shape and looks nice now that I buffed out the paint and cleaned up the chrome. The inside was also better than I expected. Hot water, simple green and a small bag of fish tank gravel sloshing around cleaned it up nicely. I did the Evaporust soak just to get any hidden rust and discovered a very slow leak around the bung. I will have to address that before using this tank.
I took the knee pads off to clean it and discovered a name and some other details. I have no idea who or what it references, but I find it interesting so i figured I would share with the group.
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Looking good dcr, but the way that mirror is positioned, one would think you're keeping a eye out to make sure no condors sneak up to swoop you off your pride & joy! ;D
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Either that or dcr is REALLY TALL!... ;D
...bert
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You guys spot everything - I bumped it as I was moving it around the garage and it ended up in that odd position. No condors around PA, just a few bald eagles here and there.
Dan
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Comforting to see your pile of rust GTR-BTR. The tank I refurbished had about that much and I considered it a little crazy to refurb it. I guess "cracy-ness" loves company. The metal was found sound after splitting the tank and abrasive cleaning the inside. Double checked for leaks with a pressure test of the reassemblied tank before chrome and paint. Results are satisfying.
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Splitting the tank - that sounds somewhat appealing and troubling at the same time.
What is the process of splitting the tank and what is involved in putting it back together?
Your pieces look REALLY good.
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Hi Bob,
''Results are satisfying'', that's an understatement ;D ;D, your tanks and side panel look absolutely fabulous to me, hope mine come out that good. Great job and colour match to how I remember the original paintwork is spot on. No good me asking who did the work, I'm in the UK :(. Would also be interested in hearing how the tank was split and how the colour match was achieved?
Keep up the good work, Brian.
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Just to add a "way ta go!" on the paint, etc.
...bert
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Davis,
nice job on the refurb! I think a lot of us are jealous, I know I am!
What sort of locking fuel cap have you fitted? I have not seen a BS locking cap before?
ryan
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No need for jealousy, I'm just trying to keep up with you guys. Just persistence and some $ (thank you Honey for your patience too).
The tank seams were carefully sanded off (leave as much flange as possible for the re-weld butt weld). When apart, the halves were paint stripped and de-chromed, which I have found pretty expensive. (If anyone has a line on cheap chrome removal please let me know). In half, the pieces are easy to remove dents from and to clean the inner surface. I used about the best weld guy in our area to TIG weld the halves together (quality weld is of course important here). Actually, the old tanks can leak from this weld, so applying a quality, fresh weld is an upgrade. Check at the same time the weld around the petcock mounting port, these can fail as well. Also, a good leak check before chrome is important of course.
I enjoyed this project and am interested in doing another (I know Mr. Reed, I really have to get to finish the engine build to finish my first GTR!). I now may do one to the point of being chromed with illustrations.
Paint came from lifting the badges on two old battery covers where the paint appeared original. I had a good local painter (who paints vintage Corvettes - so this guy is good) who consulted with his paint rep. I can probably get the paint codes from him. Also, if anyone wants him to do the job I am willing to be your go-between.
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Finally back from vacation in Costa Rica (awesome place) and had some Bridgestone time. Got the tank issues squared away so its time for fuel and starting this beast up. Put a gallon of premix in the tank with no leaks - that's definitely a plus. A small quick squirt of starter fluid and it starts right up. The left side is smoking quite well but the right seems to be lacking. Apparently the right cylinder isn't firing but I didn't have time to explore the cause. Ill check for spark and fuel tomorrow but at this point, I'm thrilled that it actually started up.
The right carb is leaking a bit - I suspect its a float valve issue which should be easy enough to address.
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Whoo hoo! Nice going dcr. Sounds like you are on the downhill. Good luck the rest of the way...
...bert
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Rectifier was bad - swapped out for one that isnt shorted out. Started up and took a quick trip around my development - man this thing is very quick and kinda loud.
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Amen dcr...Quick and loud! Get her out where you can really let it go and you"ll get the full effect! If its a good runner, like most of 'em are, you'll have no problem finding the ton! ;D ::) ;D
...bert
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At what RPM does your 350 idle?
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Hello, looking to paint my Gtr and was wondering if happen to get the paint codes used to paint yours, which by the way looks fabulous. Any help you could give me would be greatly appreciated. I'm sure there are others that could use that info as well . Thanks Kawajockey