Reproduction carb side covers 350?

[Jeff Bar]

Anything going on with someone making 350 alum carb covers?  I know there was some talk about it?  Jeff Bar

[coxy]

i have been talking to ed there are a lot of factors that i did not take into account .i have basically given up on the idea but i hope someone else will take on this project

[Sno Jet]

I wonder if Richard or Redimports has considered doing this??  I would assume there is going to have to be a lot of investment up front to do it.  Where there's a will, there's a way!

[ztnoo]

Here's my take on this subject.
To think someone is going to incur considerable speculative debt (shocking numbers) to reproduce 350 carb side covers, is a huge pipe dream in my opinion, and I have to wonder what is in the smoking pipe....

I mean we're not talking about a couple of hundred C notes or even a couple of Gs to even think about getting that idea off the ground.
Tooling and set up would be a killer.
Then there would likely be production problems which would have to be resolved.
And consider this.....for all that work, effort and entrepreneurship, how many covers could or would sell?
I mean there have to be REAL numbers of committed buyers (pre-sold) for this brainstorm to get past square one.
We're not talking about reproducing Honda CB 350 engine covers here.......they made bizillions of those bikes..........

Maybe something in carbon fiber/Kevlar could be pulled off, but not being a being a machinist or one familiar with casting or creating exotic material assemblies, I'm just throwing that idea out there.

If Richard has (had) side covers at a certain price at some point, you can bet your ass a potential buyer would be looking at four to six times that amount, minimum.
I mean pick a number and you might be right....

Thinking that anyone is going to take up this torch, is a real shot in the dark.....IMO.
 

[Sno Jet]

You may be right, but don't throw the towel in so quickly.  No offense, but you would have to own a GTR before you could realize the full value of a good right hand cover.  I have to admit that I have not personally come up with a dollar amount that I would pay but I could be persuaded to pay up. 

People thought that a restored GTR would NEVER sell for 7-8 grand, but it happened.  Hell, Steve Jobs was laughed at when he thought of Apple.  You may be surprised what a owner would be willing to spend if the last piece he needed was a nice carb. cover.  I love my GTR and even though it currently sits  in pieces.  You could not pry it from me.  I am not the only one who shares this feeling.

I know that I don't want to go on forever with a patched one.  All of these numerous 350's coming up for sale probably need that cover.  Sooner or later, a new owner will be looking for one.

I say until we find a trustworthy and knowledgeable person to take the job on and rule the possibility out, we will never know.  He would surely not succeed with the first phone call but I am optimistic there are capable persons out there who like challenges.  Again, it may take some persuasion and arm twisting.  Nothing worthwhile comes easily. 

Here's another thought.  How about "we" the Forum members find someone who could repair all of the broken ones.  I say it can be done.  There are skilled people out there.

[ztnoo]

It's still in the end, all about money.
How much would any one of you be willing to pay (max) for an original cover, in good condition???
Seriously, how much?
How about a dead ringer A1 knockoff which no one would be able to tell the difference???
Seriously?

I mean, if you seriously want and are seeking covers out there, everyone has to have some sort of threshold in mind.
 
You already know they can't be had for $20.
All of you interested parties need to *ante up and say how many you want and maybe someone will run with that and see if the numbers work (for production costs and a least a reasonable profit for the hassle and risk.
Sign up here.
State your user name and quantity you will commit to purchasing....whether that's  $120 or $737.....or whatever.

*ante

an·te
? ?/?ænti/ Show Spelled [an-tee] noun, verb, -ted or -teed, -te·ing.

noun
1. Poker . a fixed but arbitrary stake put into the pot by each player before the deal.
2. an amount of money paid in advance to insure an individual's share in a joint business venture.
3. Informal . an individual's share of the total expenses incurred by a group.
4. Informal . the price or cost of something.

verb (used with object)
5. Poker . to put (one's initial stake) into the pot.
6. to produce or pay (one's share) (usually followed by up ): He anted up his half of the bill.

verb (used without object)
7. Poker . to put one's initial stake into the pot.
8. Informal . to pay (usually followed by up ).

[moonpup]

Does anyone remember what the last one went for on eBay?

[coxy]

hey steve for a original cover in excellent condition i would pay probably $200-300 nos maybe 500 ish depending on how financial i am at the time
 

[Sno Jet]

We need to put our energies into finding someone with knowledge and the right connections at this point.   We all know we are not going to get it done for $100.  I like the idea of finding a aluminum craftsman to fix them. 

I would think that someone could weld some aluminum in, grind it flush and polish it out.  I am sure it would still be expensive buy at least we would have an option at that point.

[ziggy stardust]

Got to agree with ztnoo, it won't happen.

I've seen this sort of ambitious forward thinking many times before with the Suzuki RE5, Jess of Rotary Recycle has pumped his own money into having obsolete parts re manufactured at huge costs, not hundreds of $ but thousands. What happens is the new parts can be expensive so owners make do with what they have or get their part repaired, some are sold but no where near the quantity needed to even break even.

Some of his re manufactured parts are not expensive but they also don't sell in the quantity to make it worth doing, another example is he had full gasket sets made for the RE5 of good quality at a big cost to him, they started to sell until someone in Japan sold the same thing on eBay for a fraction of Jess's cost but lower quality, it killed off his supply ending in a big loss on his investment.

Carb covers in aluminium? No chance, possibly in some form of plastic from a vacuum mold but there again how many would be sold? It's just not economic sense. I personally don't need one but if it did happen then well done.

Have a look at this, could this be the solution for the covers? Anyone willing to try it?

 

Z

[oldstarfire]

Coxy and I were discussing this.

I came up with a metal colored urethane from Smooth-on that is temp resistant and could be used to make a decent facsimilie.
A workable mould could be made for $400 to $600.
Unfortunately, as others have noted here, repro availability frequently results in zero demand!


The problem with metal casting is shrinkage, and pressure die casting is a unreachable dream in this case.

Tig welding and polishing original parts is probably the most logical - just find a good welder.
Not a learner or structural steel guy!

[coxy]

hey ed i was thinking that if we could make a over sized plastic cover for a mold to allow for the 2% or there a bouts shrinkage for the aluminum then it is easy enough to do the backyard casting it would have to be sand casting though and mean a lot more finishing but i think it can be done.maybe this is still worth some investigation .

some times its not about the money .
steve to give you a idea of the cost for 3 velocette racing cylinders to be cast it cost around $4000 and there is a lot more involved in that than a pretty simple shaped cover

[oldstarfire]

Well, it is a simple piece from the outside, but not so much from the inside.

As the shrinkage is a sorta constant %, and the piece is not very constant, the oversize "pattern" would be a trial and try again thing

Yes, doable, but fraught with cost and frustration.

Is there a foundry pattern maker at your end?

[coxy]

no pattern maker any more he died. and now the nearest foundry is is around 3 hours away but i will keep on this. never know what will eventuate .

[OldSwartout]

Fiberglass is pretty easy to do with little or no shrinkage, just make a mold from an original part.  However, it would then have to be either just painted in the normal engine silver or sent out for vacuum deposition chrome.  The chrome might be feasible, but I've never looked at costs for it.  At least it would make a cosmetic cover for a rider, and with a good chrome finish, might be pretty difficult to tell from an original from the outside. The vacuum deposited chrome doesn't have a lot of durability, so some protective coating might be needed for one that gets a lot of miles.

[coxy]

i think i may have the shrinkage issue sussed  but will take a bit of mucking around .i will be sent a 1kg crucible in the next few weeks and am lining up boxes sand plaster and wax .and i think i maybe able to use my own side cover. i can make repairs to the first plaster cast .
i will though firstly practice on some 175 covers that i have plenty of .
this may take some time

[moonpup]

hey steve for a original cover in excellent condition i would pay probably $200-300 nos maybe 500 ish depending on how financial i am at the time
 

It looks like we'll soon see what the market is for the elusive right cover.......  Richard has one currently up for auction on eBay . Let the bids begin!  

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Bridgestone-350-GTR-GTO-Right-side-Carburetor-and-Clutch-Cover-NEW-NOS-/120848784006?hash=item1c23261a86&item=120848784006&pt=Motorcycles_Parts_Accessories&vxp=mtr

[coxy]

bugger bloody bugger something like this always pops up  after i have bought some real expensive stuff !
karma?

[ztnoo]

Time left: 6 days 17 hours 15 mins
Duration: 7 days

No bids yet.........
Starts with C note.

[ztnoo]

One bid now.....
Member Id: 0***c        US $100.00    
Jan-25-12 12:45:02 PST