Bridgestone Motorcycle Parts Discussion Board
Bridgestone Tech Talk => Engine => Topic started by: drtracr on April 14, 2011, 11:09:06 AM
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I need someone that can build, modify a 175 engine. Also need some expansion chambers. I am buying a 200 and will put 175 stuff on it. Need someone good to build the motor, I will do the rest.
Thanks,
Jimmy
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Are you talking about someone who can merely assemble a motor or someone known for tuning race winning bikes?
I would assume you are looking for someone with porting and transfer modifying skills, matching cylinders to cases, modification of heads and squish band, and someone who can build and tunes chambers for your displacement and specific power requirements........maybe someone like Scott Clough or Ed Erlenbach in CA.
These guys are primarily Yamaha specialists, but might be convinced to work on something of a unique nature like you are doing.
Are these the types of specialists you are seeking out?
http://home.earthlink.net/~scloughn/index.html (http://home.earthlink.net/~scloughn/index.html)
http://erlenbachracing.net/ (http://erlenbachracing.net/)
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Yes that is what I am lookng for. Thanks,
JM
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I should ad this guy to the mix too: http://www.rb-designs.com/ (http://www.rb-designs.com/)
And you might want to read this:
Machine shops-to trust or not to trust?!
http://www.2strokeworld.com/forum/index.php?topic=9173.msg69854#msg69854 (http://www.2strokeworld.com/forum/index.php?topic=9173.msg69854#msg69854)
Again, I'll say it, these guys are all Yam gurus.....but the important thing to note is that the KNOW racing and hopped up 2-strokes inside out.
That's what you want.
You want machinists and tuners show KNOW 2-strokes.
The novelty of your project might really get their blood flowing, so to speak.
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Jimmy
Good advice. I do not want to start a fight. But i feel I have to say.
Yamaha guys? Most modern Yamaha builders while they are experts at piston port Yamaha's are NOT Bridgestone experts. I bet they will say that too.
The 175 is very different than, say a Yamaha RD350. The BS is a twin rotary valve, built as a hand made old school engine, not a mass produced engine.
The Yamaha is a piston port engine, way different in design.
There are many people on this site, who know how to build a Bridgestone, no reason to send a friend to a outside Yamaha shop.
Bridgestone even published a book"Tuning up for Competition" Its even posted
on this site. See http://bridgestonemotorcycleparts.com/index.php?action=downloads;cat=4 (http://bridgestonemotorcycleparts.com/index.php?action=downloads;cat=4)
This is a Bridgestone site, much great information and knowledge here. I bet you can get help if you ask.
Contact bsracer and OldSwartout on this site, I bet they can help. I think both of them actually race 175's today. There is your "go fast" answers.
Just my opinion. DG
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Great response:
I was just getting ready to post a reply. These bikes are not at all like a Yamaha. The hop up manual gives you a very good step by step process to build a good running Bridgestone. We built many of them back in the day just using the manual and a little common sense. You might even consider talking to Steve Reed about doing the job but he may be too busy right now. I have been at his shop and can tell you he is very qualified. Not to mention the fact that he has been a motorcycle wrench for over 30 years racing and otherwise. I think you will enjoy just possibly trying to do it yourself with the manual. It will give you great satisfaction when finished, and then if you have any questions during the process you can certainly get some advice from this site. Just my two cents worth.
Thanks Mike
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You will be surprised how many members on this site can build a race wining BRIDGESTONE
Thanks.
Steve.
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Hey Jimmy,
just wondering what it is exactly you're shoot'n for? Everyone out there has there own ideas of what will work. I've been racing this sr175 since 2003 and it still seems like a mild street bike. Mine is pretty much based on a stock sr175 with some modifications. If you go with a competent 2 stroke guy that knows anything they should be able to set you up with a pretty quick little bike. Feel free to give me a call if you have any questions. Scott Clough built a 200 motor for Craig Hirko (sp?) recently. There are lots of stuff that interchange between the 200 and 175, however the cylinders are one thing that don't without major modifications.
paul
619-675-4060
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Thanks guys, I am wanting to pay someone to do the engine build. I am not an engine guy. I can do the chassis and the rest. I would prefer to be a B/stone guy if someone wants to do it. I figure I need around 400hp or 40hp, one of the two.
Just want to have fun and make B/stone guys proud.
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Jimmy,
That's what I figured and why I assumed you were asking for advice on engine builders. The hop up specs will work well I'm sure, and can probably be done by a competent machinist with engine modification experience, but this is 40-45 year information. A lot has been learned about 2-stroke performance since that material was written. If you look at the graph chart on HP after the suggested mods, it says to expect a little over 27 HP @ approximately 10,300 rpm. I'm not sure that's the knife that will cut the cake you want to eat. That's a long way from the 40 hp you maybe are hoping for. IMO you need a two stroke motor guy who has full machining capabilities and skills, who understands port maps and port timing, has experience with newer metal treatment processes which decrease heat and increase HP, and has real world knowledge about what will work and what won't work. You need someone who can squeeze as much reliable top end power out of a 175 as possible. A guy who rebuilds Kohler lawn mower motors isn't likely to fit the bill.
I suspect there are a couple of guys here that can tell you what worked for them with their RR set-ups and may be able to ball park you some HP figures, but whether they can perform the modifications for you, only they can answer. I don't not know any of the builders I suggested personally. I have never had them do work for me. I owe them nothing. But word of mouth about who are skilled, competent, and sought after over time goes a long way. Anyone can tell you anything, its the results their work earn which pretty much says it all. Their reputations precede them, if you understand what I mean. Rotary valve engines are different than piston port engines, but not so different that what these guys know can't be applied across the board. Scott Clough has had great results with 200cc RR Yamaha twins and holds 3 AHRMA speed records at Bonneville, and Ed Erlenbach is responsible for a world record holding 164.73mph RD400. I think they can help get you where you want to go, if you can convince them to take interest in your project. They will not be cheap, but I imagine you have a much greater chance for success with them than with someone else who might be a good machinist, but understands very little about how racing 2-stoke motors work.
One of the areas the builders might able to advise you about is the carburation, based on their long term experience. I see from the manuals, the stock carbs are 17mm units. My RD 125 has bigger carbs on it. Those 17s seem tiny to me for what you want to do. My guess is they might suggest you will need more intake area to help make more HP. You likely might require carbs that are not only larger, but that are infinitely more tunable than the stock carbs......like some Mikunis for instance. This would mean some innovative thinking about the rotary valve covers and the best means to adapt to them. Also if you are going to increase intake area (if that's the advice) then the specs of the expansion chambers in "Tuning up for Competition" would only be a starting point. I understand Clough can fabricate pipes to spec, but he doesn't list that service on his web site. Another thing to consider is that chamber fabricators usually require a "model", meaning a bike to mock fit and mount chambers to before completing fabrication.
There's a lot of things to consider, and in the end you will be the one who will have to make judgments about how far to take this and how much you might have to spend. But if you are able to do it right, your goal might be in sight.
I wish you well on your ambitious project. Keep us informed.
Regards,
Steve
P.S. I just reviewed the SR 175 exclusive parts list and it calls for 22mm carb with 250 jet.
Also in the BS Tune Up Manual it says:
6. MODIFICATION OF ROTARY DISC VALVE COVERS
To suit the carburetor 22.24 mm bore, make and weld
the tube by cutting off the original intake tube.
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Steve, getting 40hp is my wish list, 30 plus is realistic. I talked to Lowell Horing at Porting By Horing. He says he can get 50 plus out of it, but I don't think it will stand that. Lowell is going out of the country for a month so have to wait if I use him, very sharp and knowedgeable.
Jimmy
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Jimmy, you should be able to go for the record you want with just SR level of power (27 HP). Both my roadracer and Paul Piskor's are similar to SR engines, with more modern design expansion chambers. Mine are a Harry Barlow design, not certain who did Paul's, I think it was Rob North. My bike ran 94 MPH at Bonneville (5000 ft. elevation) on the salt, probably would run closer to 100 at sea level. Of course, it's faired, so a bare bike will be a little slower.
The BS engine will stand the high 20/low 30 HP semi-reliably, but if you try to get mid-30s or higher, you'll need pistons, transmission and crank redesign. The stock pistons and rings failed Paul and I roadracing, but would work for a few short LSR runs. The crankshafts break somewhat frequently now, but would be good for a while for LSR, until you try to get high HP, then would need a redesign. The transmission is strong enough, but the ratios wouldn't work for a high HP, peaky engine. Vince Gunning in England has a close ratio design they use on 200s, but not certain if they have any extras. If they do, it's probably $2K. The clutch would need some beefier springs, really high HP will require additional plates I think. Vince probably knows best of anyone what it takes to make a reliable 175, he's been building racing 200s for years. I don't know the current status of that racing, though. Paul and I are limited to 22 mm carbs by AHRMA rules. You can use 24's, but I think anything larger is probably counter-productive. The design is limited on the amount of area you can get entering the crankcase without chopping away all the structure. Larger carbs would just make tuning and keeping a decent powerband more difficult. That also limits your HP potential to something in the low 30's I think.
Scott Clough is a good all-around 2-stroke guy. He currently builds Yamahas primarily, I think, but has built fast Bultacos and just about any other you can think of. He has even done some hydroformed expansion chambers. If you just want to go fast at Maxton, your best bet is a CT-1. Scott could build that engine in his sleep. His CT-1 went 113 the same day my BS went 94 at Bonneville. I'm sure he can build a BS175, but check with Vince Gunning, too, if you want to go that way.
The 200 cylinders are similar to the 175's but have larger transfers, hence, more casting stock to work with. However, you'd have to have them sleeved if you start with them. I think you can get all the transfer area you need starting with 175 cylinders (remember those 24 mm carbs will be a limitation). You will need SR bore cylinders, not stock DT175 cylinders, to keep the size legal unless they allow an overbore at Maxton. Paul and I run stock DT bore size as AHRMA allows an overbore beyond class displacement limits.
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I haven't even tried these yet. These are for a motor that should be close to 30hp using 22mm Mikuni carbs. With this setup I would be able to experiment with other carb sizes. Jos Schurgers Bridgestone was a 125 with 40hp using 28mm Mikuni carbs but I think only really retainted the engine cases. Everything was reworked.
paul
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Jimmy,
Very interesting site. Lots of info and great pics. Very professional presentation.
Lowell Horning. Porting by Horning. http://www.2-stroke-porting.com/Home.html (http://www.2-stroke-porting.com/Home.html)
It would appear he does primarily watercraft motor work.
His skill is very evident in the photos.
When you talked with him, did he mention any experience with air cooled, motorcycle based motors?
That is not evidenced at his site
The reason I ask is because there are differences in reliability between air cooled and water cooled motors.
He's probably accustomed to squeezing max HP out of water cooled mills. I'm not so sure the same standards can be applied to air cooled engines.
It appears he deals with primarily late model motors, with up-to-date manufacturing technology. He's found he's niche, it would appear.
The question I would ask is: does the skill and experience he has gained fit into what you want to do?
The scourge of air cooled 2-stroke motors in the 60's and the early to mid 70's was excessive heat, especially in highly modified motors with wild port timing specs.
If you didn't have the air/fuel mixture set right on the money and observed by constant plug chop readings, you always risked seizure, which was a result of too much heat.
The phrase, "have a quick hand" related to being able to disengage the clutch ASAP if you sensed seizure.
If a rider didn't have a good sense of this impending disaster, he risked unanticipated massive road rash, inadvertent meetings with Armco barriers, and potential demise. Often being quick wasn't quite good enough.
The transition from air cooled TD and TR Yamahas to water cooled TZ models allowed engine temperatures to be moderated and controlled efficiently and lead immediately to significantly lower numbers of seizures.
Horsepower didn't significantly increase, but liquid cooling allowed more consistent high power for the duration of an event. It was almost like a night and day difference.
Unlike road racers however, which often ran in 25-40 minute races where excessive heat could be a problem with air cooled motors, all you are going to require is a decent warm up and then runs of less than one minute where escalating temperatures shouldn't be a problem. Maybe a bit more can be risked considering the workload and the time frame (relatively short) the motor will be asked to perform.
The engine you will be modifying is an old era air cooled motor. I suspect Karl is pretty much right about the maximum power that might be wrung out. I think something in the mid 30s (maybe) in terms of HP would be about the end of the line when modified by an experienced 2-stroke builder with the right carburation and expansion chambers. To get this kind of power everything will have to be right and the motor will be peaky like nothing you have probably ever ridden.
As to Vince Gunning, anyone here......Karl, Steve Reed, Baron K, bsracer, anyone.......have any info about how Jimmy could contact him?
I did find he posts at the Classic Racing Motorcycle Club (CRMC) forum and his user name is vince gunning (vinny g). I was unable to access other info because I haven't registered there.
http://www.k21.co.uk/smf/index.php (http://www.k21.co.uk/smf/index.php)
Jimmy, you might also want to review this thread: 175 Bridgestone Race Bike http://bridgestonemotorcycleparts.com/index.php?topic=1150.0 (http://bridgestonemotorcycleparts.com/index.php?topic=1150.0)
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Try Vince at vincegunning (at) hotmail (dot)com. That's the last e-mail address I had for him. If it doesn't work, contact Brian McDonough at brian (at) bikeaddict (dot) freeserve (dot) co (dot) uk. Brian raced a Bridgestone that Vince built.
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I did ask Lowell about a Bridgestone and he knows a lot of them. I will talk to anyone and go anywhere to make this work. I am 100% dedicated to it.
Jimmy
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I want to thank everyone that has added input. Karl, Steve, all of you. When I get this all done and make my attempt it will be because you guys helped. Maybe we could have a Bridgestone ride in.
Jimmy
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Karl, I found Vince Gunning with that address, he answered and we are talking about some gears and what else he may have.
Thanks,
Jimmy
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Maybe we could have a Bridgestone ride in.
Jimmy
Did you go to the Vintage Fest at Barber those years that the Bridgestone Rally was there ('06-'08)?
It just occurred to me, you should contact Cory Moore in Birmingham. He has a collection of some of the nicest restored Bridgestones in existence, including the most over-restored GTR. He may have items you need for your project and he's just a few miles down the road. His e-mail is cbmoore (at) wwisp (dot) com
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karl, thanks a ton, you are a blessing
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Its a shame some of the old bridgestone guys will not join us on this site, I really do not know how much help you will get from them. Jeff Bar
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Vince Gunning is being very helpful. He says they are way ahead of us on engines over there. Very nice guy or chap as he says.
JM
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JM, Its great you are getting some help. I wish I knew tech too. Jeff Bar
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Jimmy,
Since you have made contact with Vince, why don't you invite him to join us here.
Might be a great discussion (it already is) if he'll chip in his two cents worth.
Steve
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Will do.
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Hello chaps,Jimmy has been in touch and sent me a link to this site,thanks Jimmy,so here i am.Whilst in no way pretending to be a Bridgestone expert i have had a mess about with the 175/200 engine with a little success at times.I hide nothing so if you have a question that you may think i have the answer to just ask.As Jimmy pointed out we seem,unfortunately sometimes,to be a little in front of you in engine development.Classic racing in the UK is very competetive and developement constantly on going.Ive read through the previous posts from your goodselfs and,for now, will list a few things that i know to be true with regard to my own engines.I daresay some of you would also have some experience of some of these things.
Carbs, I thought that when i changed from 22mm to 28mm carbs the bike would transform from mediocre to missile.Wrong,the main benefit was that i was able to get the bike to carburate better with the bigger carbs.You can put this down to the assymetrical inlet timing,running around 220 degrees gives plenty of time for fuelling regardless of carb size.Remember,the mixture has to go somewhere and we know how limited we are on port area.
Power. 36/37 bhp is about it and for that your engine is trick and expensive.32/33 bhp at the backwheel is hometuneable at nice revs,ie 10000.This keeps reliability uptogether.
Ignition. I have back to backed the fixed timing Dyna S system and a self generating unit with a curve in it.Peak power and revs were identical though midrange was superior with the curve.
Cranks.Yes they will snap,Im convinced that this is an age/use issue rather than a power issue.The cranks we have snapped have been on our slowest motors.I now run a straight pin between the wheels doing away with the step where it always snaps.Bridgestone rods,pins and bearings are surprisingly good and in 10 years have never suffered a failure.I have just modded a crank to run the Suzuki rod kit from an x7.The Rm125 kit is the same with a silver plated cage.i will report back.Ideally the crank needs to convert to 4 bearing with a lab seal but the space is tight.
Clutch.We have no issues with the standard clutch but you will break the odd plate.I run straight cut primary gears and slightly heavier springs.I am trying some kevlar plates this year and will report back.
Gearboxes.We do run modified boxes.These were converted by Nova transmissions and were quite adequate.We also went on to made from scratch 6 speed boxes from Nova that are faultless but horrifically exspensive at around £2000.
Pipes.Various designs tried and to be honest it all seems to be about what you want the bike to rev to.
Heads.I gave up trying to weld and mod standard heads and cheated by using heads from a Yamaha Rd200.You could look at the ycs1 head also.Plug the stud holes,re drill to suit the Bridgestone stud spacing and hey presto,factory squish heads with the benefit of a long reach plug.I run .6mm squish with i think 9cc volume giving me 12.5-1. The stud spacings are very close and as we say in this part of the world its a piece of cake to do.
Porting.Nothing special here,i think my timings come out at around 198 exhaust,132 transfer and 135 rear trans.Spot the tip? Open the rear around 1mm before the main.
Well i must go as its Sunday and as you know us folk over here like to spend our days off drinking tea and moaning about the weather.I hope that the above may have been of help if only in a small way to someone.I shall be a regular visitor so anything you think i may of come across before,feel free to ask.My email address is as posted elsewhere vincegunning@hotmail.com.
Very best wishes to you all that side,Cheers for now Vince
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Vince,
Welcome aboard! Great to have you here at the site.
Thank you for the wonderfully informative thoughts you have given us in your first post.
We look forward to hearing much more from you.
Regards,
Steve
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Very interesting and useable information in your response, Vince. I'm in agreement with you on the crank breakage, although I had (wrongly) assumed it would be worse at higher RPM, so that lead to my thinking that a highly modified engine would be more likely to break one as the operating RPM range would likely be higher. I had guessed that a straight center pin would help as that eliminates the stress riser as you have found, but hadn't tried it. It's good to know that works. I had built a couple crankshafts with an improved center pin (4350 hardened to RC48 with a much improved corner radius design). That didn't last significantly longer than the stock pin. I think the real cause is a resonance of the crankshaft/crankcase with the crankshaft bending into a wave shape at some RPM range, flexing the center pin until it cracks at the shoulder. All failures I've seen over the years (many) have obviously been rotating bending failures, not torsional failures. Have you tried balancing the crankshaft assembly to different specs than factory? If the resonance point could be moved out of the operating RPM band or the forces just reduced by better balancing, the problem should go away. It would take a couple accelerometers and decent recording/analysis equipment to sort this out, though.
Do you make an attempt to enlarge the transfer ports significantly? I think everyone here matches up the transfers with the crankcase, smooths them and takes out some material, especially at the entrance. Unfortunqtely, the 175 transfers are smaller than the 200s and it's pretty difficult to get very much material out. I do open the exhaust significantly and raise it 1mm.
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Karl you and Vince are so far over my head I am lost. I am a race car driver and builder and bike racer, not an engine builder. That is why I desperatly need some one to build my motor.
Jimmy
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hey guys, spoke to Richard Taylor and he has done some port work on B/stones. His specialty is Hodakas. He also sent me to Jemco for pipes, might screw around and find enough stuff to do this.
I still would like to buy some new parts if they exist. New cyclinders, heads, pistons, rotary valves, gaskets, seals, piston rings, pins and bearings, crank bearings.Clutch plates and springs. Anyone got anything, let me know.
JM
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Jimmy,
You might check with Richard to see what he specifically has in the way of 175 parts.
He may have way more than you even dreamed about.
Also, there is some other stuff floating around. Keep an eye on eBay
I noted NOS 175 SR fiber clutch plates and a NOS 175 crank on eBay this morning.
http://motors.shop.ebay.com/i.html?_nkw=Bridgestone%20motorcycle%20&_sacat=6028&_odkw=Bridgestone%20motorcycle%20parts&_osacat=6028&bkBtn=&_trksid=m194&ssPageName=STRK:MEFSRCHX:SRCH (http://motors.shop.ebay.com/i.html?_nkw=Bridgestone%20motorcycle%20&_sacat=6028&_odkw=Bridgestone%20motorcycle%20parts&_osacat=6028&bkBtn=&_trksid=m194&ssPageName=STRK:MEFSRCHX:SRCH)
There are a few parts here: http://bridgestonemotorcycleparts.com/index.php?action=classifieds;cat= (http://bridgestonemotorcycleparts.com/index.php?action=classifieds;cat=)
and here: http://bridgestonemotorcycleparts.com/index.php?board=13.0 (http://bridgestonemotorcycleparts.com/index.php?board=13.0)
btw I've looked at some ECTA and SCTA stuff as far as motorcycle classes.
Looks like there is a category for about anything anyone would care to run.
What class or classes are you shooting for?
And what are the records in those classes?
Regards,
Steve
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Steve, shooting for PMG 175/2 and the record is 81 and PMF 175/2 and it is 84.
Basiclly the non pushrod 175 2 stroke production based chassis with slight mods.
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bsracers reference Schurgers to got me to thinking and remembering and researching.
Fascinating stuff......really.
* reference: http://www.yamaha-classic-racingteam.nl/site2/index.php?page=team_jos (http://www.yamaha-classic-racingteam.nl/site2/index.php?page=team_jos)
"Jos Schurgers was however especially known for his Bridgestone 125 racer, a machine he build him himself because it was to only way to get a competitive racer with a small budget."
"He bought a Japanese 125 cc Bridgestone road bike which he tuned together with the legendary Jörg Möller. Jos build his own fairing and the result was the number nine position in the final GP standings. In 1973 he even managed to conquer the third overall position in the final ranking."
"1. What was, in your opinion, your single biggest achievement as a roadracer?
To win the Belgian GP in 1973 on Francorchamps and the third place in the final ranking of the world championship that year with my Bridgestone 125 cc racer. No mean feat with a very limited budget that was compensated by an enormous passion, both in developing the Bridgestone and in racing it."
"3. What was your favorite racing bike, favorite track and favorite public?
As a rider my 125 cc Bridgestone, as my dream de fourcilinder 125 cc Yamaha used by Read and Ivy before my own racing career took off. I loved fast tracks such as Francorchamps and Sachsenring, but surely also Assen."
And then I found some absolute fantastic pics of Schurgers' Bridgestone:
(http://lh3.ggpht.com/_C04BaEXqdp0/S3FrsZh8zkI/AAAAAAAABQ4/NSas0tyHhr0/s720/125cc%20%20BRIDGESTONE%20%201973%20%282%29.JPG)
(http://lh5.ggpht.com/_C04BaEXqdp0/S3FrrQv2rfI/AAAAAAAABQ0/ZrAyeD8lfa8/s720/125cc%20%20BRIDGESTONE%20%201973.JPG)
(http://lh5.ggpht.com/_C04BaEXqdp0/S3Fue98gWzI/AAAAAAAABSQ/XukGmP3lF-A/s512/125cc%20%202cil.%20%20Bridgestone%20bwj.1973.JPG)
(http://lh5.ggpht.com/_C04BaEXqdp0/S3FreU_KQvI/AAAAAAAABQw/-TwCqFhpog8/s640/125cc%20%20BRIDGESTONE%20%201973%20%283%29.jpg)
How about them apples???
;D
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Awesome bike.
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Jimmy,
Yes, it an amazing example of what GP privateers in the 60's and early 70's could turn out.
Their individual machining and engineering skills were at a level right with the factory teams.
The big difference.....and it always comes up when one is trying to reach the top.....is resources.
Bucks, pounds sterling, guilders, swiss francs, whatever.
Money is always an issue...it was then and it is now, particularly in a depressed economy.
The Dutch were especially skilled in developing the lower displacement classes.
When you eye-ball Schurgers Bridgestone......it looks like a slightly larger Kreidler 50cc GP machine.
That's gotta be a copied Kreidler fairing and gas tank.
That was an amazingly innovative period.
Too bad that isn't possible today..... :'(
So privateers now go for LSRs, right???
;D
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Gentlemen, it appears as with many people's help I have located or found a source for everyting I need. Between Karl and Richard I have the motor parts located. All I need is some pipes. If anyone knows of any SR pipes laying around I sure could use them to send to JEMCO for a pattern Or if there are any good pipes for sale anywhere in the world, let me know. Found a very knowledgable B/stone engine man 20 miles from me and he will do the motor assembly. I am getting very exciting about this. Also if anyone knows how to get in touch with Cory Moore, tried his email and it didn't work.
Thanks to9 all.
Jimmy
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Almost forgot. Steve got any 22 or 24 mm carbs laying around.
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Jimmy,
(http://www.2strokeworld.com/forum/Smileys/custom/thumbup.gif)
That's great news.....the parts and a Bridgestone guy close to you (how fortunate is THAT???)
Keep us updated!
When do you think you might be ready to make an attempt this year?
Steve
P.S. There are expansion chamber dimensions for the 175 Dual Twin here:
http://bridgestonemotorcycleparts.com/PDF/BStuningUpManual.pdf (http://bridgestonemotorcycleparts.com/PDF/BStuningUpManual.pdf)
See page 13.
You might check with Karl to see if this is what he's running, or maybe if he's made a few dimension changes.
With dimensions like in the diagram, any competent pipe builder should be able to fab these for you.
Scott Clough comes to mind.
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I am shooting for July.
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The expansion chambers Paul, Craig Hirko and I are using are all of later, more modern design (all from different people) than the factory design pipes from 1967 (shown in the Tuning Up for Performance book). Those would work, but will provide less peak HP and a narrower powerband. Craig Hirko's pipes were made by Karl Smolenski (Google him), I believe. You can probably get Scott Clough to make a set although he won't have an engine and frame to set them up on. With mine, Harry Barlow made the head pipes and cones, I welded them together to fit the bike and made the brackets.
Sudco sells 24mm Mikuni VM's. http://www.sudco.com/CatalogJPG/107.jpg (http://www.sudco.com/CatalogJPG/107.jpg) Not certain of the price.
Richard sells 26mm 350 carbs for a good price.
Most of us racing them run the 22mm carbs from the Kawasaki A1, as they are very similar to the BS racer carbs, except they have enricheners, whereas the racer carbs didn't. They're pretty easy to find used.
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Hello.Ive been in touch with Jimmy ref pipes and pretty much agree with Karl. I did just spend an hour typing out the various pipes and porting i have tried along with some other tips only to find that it had taken me over an hour and lost it when i came to post!. Lovely.I will try to re do it on Monday when im back from racing.Very best wishes,Vince. P.S. I will try to load some photos of a few mods then as well.
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Vince,
Thanks for your interest in and input on this project.
I look forward, as I am sure everyone else does too, to whatever you offer here.
(http://www.2strokeworld.com/forum/Smileys/custom/thumbup.gif)
Regards,
Steve
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Jimmy,
I just looked at the ECTA schedule.......uh......there's no July date @ Maxton.
Only Sept. & Oct. after June.
2011 Event Schedule:
April 2-3
May 14-15
June 25-26
Sept 24-25
Oct 29-30
http://www.ecta-lsr.com/ (http://www.ecta-lsr.com/)
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hey guys, spoke to Richard Taylor and he has done some port work on B/stones. His specialty is Hodakas. He also sent me to Jemco for pipes, might screw around and find enough stuff to do this.
I still would like to buy some new parts if they exist. New cyclinders, heads, pistons, rotary valves, gaskets, seals, piston rings, pins and bearings, crank bearings.Clutch plates and springs. Anyone got anything, let me know.
JM
I have pistons and rings for the SR175. Probably some of the other parts as well.
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Steve, my mistake, guess it will be June or Sept. But all depends on when I am ready.
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Kevin, what all do you have
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Karl, talked to Corey Moore last night, what a nice guy. Invited me over to see his collection. Says he has the first Stone he ever got in 1965 restored and its in his bedroom.
He wants to come out and help. Maybe we should just make this a Bridgestone club project and we all show up at the attempt.
Jimmy
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Kevin, what all do you have
Full list of all the NOS parts I have is on my website.
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BSRACER, Paul, you posted a picture of a case side with bigger carb spigots, did you do those or who did.
JM
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Karl, I would like to come up and get the 200 and anything else I can get this week or the weekend, What day is best for you.
Jimmy
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We're busy tomorrow, but otherwise, just give me a call to make certain nothing has come up. Nothing planned for the next week or two (benefits of being retired ;D ). 317-996-3727
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Me too.
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Karl, trying to get all my crap done, have my race truck and rat rod on ebay, hope to get them out of my shop by weekend. Having to deal with insurance co on my truck, allfully busy for a man with no job.
One other thing, the farings you use, got any ideas on finding something.
JM
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Jimmy,
I thought you going to run the bike sans fairing.
Can you run it naked, then turn around and mount a fairing for another attempt at a different class record?
How is the bike and parts collecting going?
Do you have lined up pretty much what you need, even if you don't have it all yet???
Regards,
Steve
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Hey Jimmy,
I had Rob North make the rotary covers. Those pics were in the ruff stage. I'll take a couple pics of the finished covers. Kent at Airtech adapted a Yamaha TD1 fairing to a Bridgestone 175 and 350 a couple of years ago. I'll dig up some photos of those as well and post them up.
paul
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Airtech has lots of choices which could be adapted.
They even have some specialized LSR fairings.
http://www.airtech-streamlining.com/ (http://www.airtech-streamlining.com/)
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One other thing, the farings you use, got any ideas on finding something.
JM
Mine is a also a replica of a TD1, I believe; got it from Sakis Vasilopoulos in Florida. He may have another, but not certain. It has to be spread a little to clear the carbs on the side. A better choice might be the Airtech A1R fairing since it has "pods" on the sides to clear carburetors.
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The LSR specific fairings look pretty "slick" too, much more so than a RR fairing.
(http://www.airtech-streamlining.com/images/canam1.jpg)
(http://www.airtech-streamlining.com/images/canam3.jpg)
(http://www.airtech-streamlining.com/images/canam2.jpg)
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Well guys, just lived through the worst tornado in history and deadlist. All my neighbors are devesitated, but my home and shop were spared. Shop is full or water, but no big gdeal.We have no power for at least another 2 days. What a month of April. My truck and tractor burned up, now this. We are blessed that all the damage we have is fences down.
Okay back to Bridgestones. Yes I can bolt on a fairing and run two more classes. I still don't have everything lined up but getting close, was going to Karls this weekend to pickup 200, but will have to wait untill Tue, or Wed.
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Jimmy,
Wow! I'm sure you are thanking your lucky stars and saying your prayers.
What unbelievable, horrific, and total devastation through the South, but particularly in Alabama.
Unless someone has lived through a direct hit like those storms delivered, none of us can really imagine the horror Mother Nature can bring in a few minutes.
Hang in there.
Glad you and yours are OK.
Regards,
Steve
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Well starting to get a few things togther, Got my cows back in and fence back up, still don't have power, but at least I have a house and my family is alive, Unbelievable devestation
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That LSR fairing looks great, but I think that is considered streamlined I can only use a partial fairing.
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I would like to take a minute and thank some people. I do belive I have talked to some of the smartest people in racing and I would like to thanks the following people for steering me and helping me. I am so excited I can't stand it.
Thanks to:
Karl Swartout
Corey Moore
Larry Young
Larry Vancill
Vince Gunning
Bert Lilly
Richard Clark, Steve and untold others. Guys, this record deal is all due to you and will be dedicated to the Bridgestone Club.
JM
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Here are some more photos of the rotary covers I had made. I'm hoping to try these out this season at Barber and possibly Daytona
paul
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Here's another photo
paul
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Paul, those are dynamite, I would like a set as well. Can you hook me up with who made them?
Jimmy