two gto;s

[srpackrat49]

The next one i get     i,ll paint it that green color ,,,,, now watt was that color # ?   just to be different!!!!

[moonpup]

I recently posted a thread to the Bridgestone Group on Facebook requesting vin info. in an effort to gather as much data from as many sources as possible.

A kind gentleman replied that he had a couple letters from a source in Japan that might clear up some things. I surmised that these were possibly the same 2 letters from Kotaro that were already posted here on the site and I was right.

However..... he also replied that he had another one from Kotaro that included the actual monthly output for each year!    He said Kotaro got the numbers from the Japanese Car Industrial Society.

So here they are.... (unfortunately, they don't differentiate between the GTR's & GTO's which won't help with the 1971 350's.)

"This is official report by Japanese car industrial society (NIPPON
> JIDOUSYA KOUGYOKAI)."

> 1967: total ........4910
>
> June ................ 715
> July ............... 824
> August ........... 1506
> September ...... 1050
> October .......... 586
> November ....... 135
> December ....... 94
>
> 1968: total .......1872
>
> January ............. 42
> February .......... 32
> March .............. 128
> April ................ 325
> May ................ 225
> June ............... 600
> July ................ 520
> August ........... 0
> September ...... 0
> October .......... 0
> November ........ 0
> December ....... 0
>
> 1969 : total ........1000
>
> From January to October ...... 0
> November .........645
> December ........355
>
> 1970 : total .......1000
>
> From January to September ......0
> October .........229
> November .........271
> December ........ 500
>
> 1971 : total ...... 1000
>
> January .....0
> February ....500
> March ..... 500 ( end of month of 350cc's production)

[BRT-GTR]

       Mike,
                 What a find  , this is the missing link in the BS 350 production story that we have been seeking for years.  We now reliably know 9782  350s were produced in total, a question that has been asked many times
        Notice the years totals are at the top of the monthly breakdown, not at the bottom where you would expect them. The 69,70,71 (post red GTR) production now totals 3000.  Not 2000 as has been previously advised through Kotaro. Did he simply misread the information and the totals or did something get lost in translation when 90vfr750, Tony O, passed on the information in his post 10th March 2009, maybe. There's the missing 1000 bikes that I have been bleating on about for the past four years  . 
    As you say, we just have to establish how many White GTOs and Solid Gold GTRs were made from the 70,71 total of 2000, to complete the srory.  Members, please keep the VINs rolling in, well at least trickling in  , as you find them. If you see one of these machines at a show, dealers, breakers or museum, please get the VIN, model and colour if you can. frame & engine number, even better.   

   What a pity Graham Weeks didn't survive to see this information. He was trying to establish monthly production numbers by logging the lowest and highest VIN for each month.
                A good day in the BS world, great job Mike.              Brian. 

[moonpup]

Thanks Brian, but once again I can't take credit for anything other than passing on this data. Kotaro-san is the person that most deserves it, as it was his dedicated research that brought this to light.

Based on the headers in the emails forwarded to me by the gentleman on Facebook, this info was first posted to the Bridgestone Yahoo Users Group back in 2008. So it was "out there", but just never made here till now.

You're right though, Mr. Weeks would of had a blast with all this and it would have saved you 4 yrs. of head scratching! 

[paul]

We're the solid color 350s sold as 1971 models ,painted in Rockford Illinois?

[BRT-GTR]

We're the solid color 350s sold as 1971 models ,painted in Rockford Illinois?

  Paul,
             It's not impossible that this happened but the final production batches 70,71 were built entirely at the request of and for Rockfords. No machines went to the UK,  Oz or any other country except the US as far as I can establish. On this basis, I believe, it is most likely the bikes were factory painted.

     Thinking about the VIN crossover for the White GTOs and Solid Gold GTRs, I wonder whether Rockfords asked for additional White GTOs to be produced because they were selling better than the solid Gold GTRs ?? They would have been in a position to do this.
 
        Taking this further, were small trial batches of alternate colour GTRs  (Blue or Green ) made toward the end of production in an attempt to extend sales ?? There is some photographic evidence for blue GTRs, another little question to answer. Coxy's tank is interesting, Imperial gold over blue, did they change the colour on the line  or later resprays by owners ?
        Late 60s/early 70s Rockfords were in a hard place having hung their hat on the BS peg, set up as the importer and having persuaded shops to take on dealerships with relatively expensive spares inventories. The big four Japanese firms had caught up and were overhauling BS in the market. To have it all fold  after a relatively short time would not do their reputaion any good. Trying to maintain sales and shift the last of the  GTRs, anything is possible including having machines resprayed in the US as you suggest.
     Who knows.................. Brian.

[coxy]

here is the other tank off serial#21w07275 this bike also has matching frame#

[attachment deleted by admin]

[attachment deleted by admin]

[coxy]

moonpup maybe this is your answer for the green they just painted over the blue with the gold and no base coat?

[moonpup]

moonpup maybe this is your answer for the green they just painted over the blue with the gold and no base coat?

I'm confident there were never any blue GTO's from the factory. As I posted earlier, they did offer a blue tank (generic for both GTR & GTO) in the parts price list manual, along with a blue GTR oil tank and GTR battery cover. (Neither blue nor green show up as being available for the GTO side covers.) Your tanks could have been either replacement tanks or were just painted blue by a previous owner. The back of the side covers on the GTO's never got color sprayed on that side.... just the front side. If (as it appears) yours are blue on the back, that would suggest a later re-spray.

[coxy]

on both gtos to be painted blue after being factory sprayed ? seeing the gold is sprayed over the top and is the same blue under I think that it would be more feasible that blue was unpopular colour and these would have probably been resurrected spare parts ? just a theory 

[moonpup]

on both gtos to be painted blue after being factory sprayed ? seeing the gold is sprayed over the top and is the same blue under I think that it would be more feasible that blue was unpopular colour and these would have probably been resurrected spare parts ? just a theory

You did get these 2 bikes from the same owner did you not? And where did he get them? Maybe a previous owner really liked blue GTO's? Like I said, they could have been blue tanks as are seen in the parts manual and were from the parts bin. Without the history from the beginning on these 2 bikes, it's all just speculation.

[coxy]

no one gto the 06800 came to the country late 80's or early 90's the other gto came in about three years ago .and both were on different sides of oz

[BRT-GTR]

                  After 45 years and no access to factory records, (unlike most British manufacturers), many times , speculation is all we have to go on but can often lead to a sound logical theory or consensus of opinion that is probably 99% correct. Without definitive records the other 1% is out of our reach.

   That is how myself and Graham Weeks agreed that 6800 probably didn't exist when the relevant Service Bulletin was produced and we speculated on why this happened and it's implication backed up only by known production dates.  I didn't realise until much later that he gave me a credit at the end of his dating post which I very much appreciate.  RIP

     Surely we are all seeking the same end result,  to fill in the gaps in our knowledge of these machines to which we are so addicted  !!   Sometimes, we are trying to replicate the thought and business processes that took place at BS all those years ago. Can only be speculation.

          Lifes short, (it is at my age ) let's not fall out over this   but continue to enjoy the posts and banter that we do so well on this site (look at the guest numbers).  Share the knowledge.  We have resolved a long standing question only this week  - 9782!  (mod - Not 6782, what was I thinking)                 Brian.

[moonpup]

                 
          Lifes short, (it is at my age ) let's not fall out over this   but continue to enjoy the posts and banter that we do so well on this site (look at the guest numbers).  Share the knowledge.  We have resolved a long standing question only this week  - 6782!                   Brian.

Fear not Brian, Andy & I are just having a little discussion on the color question..... all's good in da hood! 

[coxy]

All good . Another point about Gto's pre dating 06800 , they more than likely had a pre production run as most company's
Mike as candy paint is expensive and we know that blue and yellow mixed together makes green maybe they were experimenting with different colours . Maybe there's a Gto with the same couloiur of frustration .purple !!!!
they had the primary colours

[CL-100]

In the Yahoo Bridgestone group pictures there is a posting of a Bridgestone barn find from Feb '08 that shows a white GTO with serial number 8370, which is a little earlier than the earliest white GTO in Brian's post. 

[CL-100]

Actually, in the next picture is GTO number 8297 with some low pipes on it. 

[BRT-GTR]

 Hi CL-100,
                    Read further down, for a long time 8430 was the earliest White GTO known to me but I now own 8012 which can't be far from the start of production. Won't hazard a guess or Moonpup will be putting on his devils advocate hat again. !! 
       Even so, thanks for the numbers, please keep them coming in, all helps to fill in the gaps.     Should now be a lot more White GTOs and Solid Gold GTRs out there that haven't come to light yet.
                Brian.

[CL-100]

Brian, thanks for the correction.  I guess this thread has gotten too confusing for me.  Moonpup, thanks for your efforts to keep the info straight.