Bridgestone Motorcycle Parts Discussion Board
Bridgestone Tech Talk => Custom built Bridgestones => Topic started by: Old BS Guy on February 26, 2016, 11:28:38 PM
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Ok all you historians and old timers, (no disrespect intended). I'm trying to dig up any info on any "Stones" that might have made it to the Salt Flats and / or made any attempts. Just seems like a natural back in the day because the engine design was so advanced. We have a E/BMMP land speed truck in build right now, and I thought it might be fun to do a tribute bike too. Any help is appreciated.
....KP
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Here's a little something on Bob Barker who set an AMA record @ Bonneville on a 350 GTR back in the 60's.....
http://www.motorcyclepowersportsnews.com/motorcycle-guru-bob-barker-has-died/ (http://www.motorcyclepowersportsnews.com/motorcycle-guru-bob-barker-has-died/)
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Very cool. Thanks Mike.
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Here's another item I found on Rick Vesco.
"1968 designed and built a motorcycle streamliner for Bridgestone Motor Corp. setting a new Land Speed Record for 100 cc on gas @ 113 mph; a record that was not broken until 2004!
http://www.teamvesco.com/rickvesco.html (http://www.teamvesco.com/rickvesco.html)
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We frequent their pit every year. It's still an enormous operation, and fun to watch them thrash. I was there in '07 when they brought the "little giant" back out for the 50th. Never knew they were involved with BS though. When you think about it, that's an amazing feat, because they ran the short course, so you only had 3 miles to get that 113mph from a standing start with a 100cc and a tall gear, even with a push. If we don't get rained out again this year, I'll stop in to find out if the bike is still around, and get some history laid on me. Thanks again.
....KP
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Someone on this web site referenced a Rockford Motors news letter that pictured the Bonneville GTR. Also Cycle magazine tested the first year 200cc bikes in the late 1960s. In that issue of cycle magazine there's an advertisement for the new 200 s that references a speed record in the fine print. look for the asterisk in the ad copy.
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Just by chance, I found the Rockfords News letter, referred to above, here's the link. Brian.
http://bridgestonemotorcycleparts.com/index.php?action=downloads;sa=view;down=96 (http://bridgestonemotorcycleparts.com/index.php?action=downloads;sa=view;down=96)
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Thanks Paul, Moonpup, Brian. Really appreciate what you all bring forward. I'm not doing a very good job of fact finding by myself. These are great leads. Given Richard's rich history in this area, (racing), I'm hoping he'll weigh in when he gets back next week. Graham, being the historian he is, might have a tidbit too. Again, many thanks.
...KP
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This is a truely awesome information gathering team. ;D
...bert
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I wonder if Vesco / Rockford could have shoehorned the 350 engine into the stream liner? Wonder if BS Japan or Rockford USA paid for the Bonneviile project?
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If someone communicates with Team Vesco, ask about Don Vesco's GTR road racer. He road raced a GTR before he became synonymous with Yamaha.
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I have a magazine at home from the 60s that has a bs175 salt lake racer, when I get home in 2 weeks I will scan and upload. The article also features Burt Munro in the article!
Ryan
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Awesome. Thanks Ryan, look forward to it.
...KP
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FYI: Back about 1966 or so Don's brother Rick had a machine powered, if memory serves by a gas washing machine engine (motor?). I think he tried it at El Mirage in CA. and perhaps Bonneville.Maybe the brotherhood around El Cajon/San Diego can offer more on the Vesco's contribution to speed.I believe Don left us far too soon and is missed by many enthusiasts.
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Paul; I'll be sure to raise the question about Don's GTR and it's history, this August. From the article, it looks like these were all running stock frames. Rich built a streamliner body to slip over the 100cc bike, thus capturing 2 records classes, one with, and one without fairing. The 200 was running a modified engine. No particulars are given, so it might have just been expansion chambers and "cut" rotary valves, but it was running in a more competitive class because of it. The 200 & 350 were both running production frame, no fairing for one class, and clip-on partial fairings for the other class. 3 bikes, 6 records. You would have to believe that Rockford had their back on this to a certain degree. Likewise, Bridgestone had a lot to gain from the exposure, and this happened at a time when the other bike companies were just starting to catch up. It also happened at a time when SoCal was a hotbed for this type of stuff. Lot's of collaboration between the likes of Vesco, Thompson, Edelbrock, and many more. In fact, when Vesco had the "Little Giant" out for it's 50th, if memory serves, Danny Thompson, (MT's kid), and Danny Ongais were there with a pair of Mustang's commemorating the record Mickey set with a Mustang, and trying to set some of their own.
I tried to compare class records on the bikes, but it's all changed. In '68, everyone ran on the "long course", being 5 miles. You backed it up by running the opposite direction. Not done anymore. If you're under 175mph, you're on the 3 mile, "short course". At some point, many of the records, like Vesco's BS record, had to be set aside, and they started over. I can already see some classes where a properly tuned "Stone" running in production frame & engine classes might just sneak in and scare some people. Just thinking......................
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FYI: Back about 1966 or so Don's brother Rick had a machine powered, if memory serves by a gas washing machine engine (motor?). I think he tried it at El Mirage in CA. and perhaps Bonneville.Maybe the brotherhood around El Cajon/San Diego can offer more on the Vesco's contribution to speed.I believe Don left us far too soon and is missed by many enthusiasts.
Nothing out of the Vesco camp would surprise me, then or now. Still innovators. You're so right about Don. One of the many who left us way too soon in our lifetimes. Thanks for sharing.
...KP
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Hi, OldBSguy,
Sorry to disappoint you this time, but I'm pretty much in the dark about the American efforts at speed records etc. It's interesting to read the contributions from other site members, though - I've actually leqarnt something!
Graham.
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Looks like the current class record is 128 & change for a production 350 frame and engine. I would think a properly prepared GTO or GTR on the right day, right conditions, could best that on a 3 mile course with a rider under 200lb. Anyone with experience on the 350 top speed, chime in! Gearing & handlebars can be changed, as a class rule.
Class record for a P/P 100 is 82+mph. Again, opinions? Obviously, a fly-weight pilot is needed here, but that's not a problem. Can the 100 do it?
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Looks like the current class record is 128 & change for a production 350 frame and engine. I would think a properly prepared GTO or GTR on the right day, right conditions, could best that on a 3 mile course with a rider under 200lb.
A stock 350GTR is good for just over 100 MPH (105 advertised) on the street (most tests of the time). Bonneville is 4,200 feet elevation, costing enough HP to loose at least 5 MPH and the higher rolling resistance of the sand will cost another 5 MPH compared to asphalt. It's pretty unlikely to be able to tweak anything that's close to production configuration to get close to the record. If you can get 100 MPH with 40 HP, you need about 65 to get 128 MPH under the same conditions. Vesco got 125 MPH, though, so playing with gearing and whatever else you can do and retain the "production" class, maybe it's possible.
My 175 road racer ran 98.62 MPH on the 3 mile course. I could have done better by 1 0r 2 MPH, but not much more. Just shortly after that, Scott Clough's DT175 Yamaha ran 113. :(
FWIW, it's cool to do even if you aren't going for a record. The 130MPH club doesn't require a lot of effort (relatively speaking), and is intended for street oriented vehicles. When I was there, there was everything from powered barstools, go karts, to somebody on a human powered tricycle with Indy car tires. It's also good to go as spectator, just to wander the pits and see all the stuff.
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Solid info, Karl. How long ago were you there? Just curious how much jetting and gearing time it took you to get it close for a solid pass? There's no place like it on earth, with regard to racing. We were sitting in a favorite watering hole called Carmen's one night in '13, and I noticed a guy sitting at the bar with an Isle of Mann TT shirt on, so I asked him about it. Turned out he didn't race the TT, but a lesser known event there, using part of the course. Amazing who you find there. Isle of Mann is still one on my bucket list, (Spectator of course). One thing I've continued to learn over the years is the salt and weather strategy. Most years, depending on wind, the salt's better early, but you run the risk of someone coming over the top if you happen to record. The later it goes into the week, the top end tends to get soft from crashes, spins, and skids. Your mph can even decline. Again, it depends a lot on the wind, which is always there, you just don't know when it's going to show. You're absolutely right about running, though. Record hunting or not, it's a hoot. Never ceases to amaze me, listening to the big bikes snicking it into 5th or 6th, and trying to get it to hook at over 170mph. What a ride. Thanks for sharing the info.
KP
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It was 2006. I was racing AHRMA at Miller Motorsports Park, and they arranged a deal for the AHRMA racers to run one day at Bonneville without having to meet the full SCTA tech inspection, just AHRMA tech.
I don't remember the gearing, but I was past 11,000 RPM and didn't want to hold it there for too long, so rolled off the throttle a bit, then rolled it back on just in time to see the 1 mile mark (the official timing point) zip past. OOPS! A later run had a little wind and I only made 94 MPH.
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Was wondering about the back story. Thanks for sharing, Karl! Pretty cool!
...bert
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Well, you DO get around don't you, you devil!. Miller Motorsport Park was a welcome addition out here in the west. I'm about 5 hours away. Thanks for the info. Very helpful all around. Not sure that we'll get a full on bike effort together this year due to the demands of getting the new truck ready, but I'll continue to pursue it. Another interesting development this direction is that the Portland Swap Meet in April has dedicated a section in the pavilion for the sale of antique motorcycles. It's definitely one of the best and largest automobile and bike swap meets in the Northwest. I'm thinking about taking my 60 & 90 Sports just to test the water.