Electronic ignition

[wonkyworks]

A German company makes an electronic ignition for the Bridgestone 350. Does any one know if the 175/200 dynamo is close enough to the 350 that this system will work on the 175/200. See attached link for pictures. I have their system on my Benelli and Jawa/CZ and like it very much.

http://www.powerdynamo.biz/deu/systems/7410/7410inst.php

Thanks, Doug

[bsracer]

It looks very nice. I think the 175/200 is very similar to the 350 but someone like Oldswartout would have to chime in. I don't have any 350 stuff to compare.


paul

[redimport]

Hi Doug,

If you look under "gallery" on my web site you will find the details of a 175/200 cc conversion. Stuart Price was good enough to send me the pics & contact details of the chap that can supply it.

later .. ray

http://bridgestonemotorcyclerestoration.com

[jjwithers]

I am trying to set up an electronic ignition on an early serial number 175HS
The points were opposite one another vs 90 degrees apart on some of the other ignitions. 
My points were not attached to a plate.  They were directly attached to the generator.
So I am using the original electronic ignition plate that the KZ1000 dyna ignition came with and I cut it down to fit in the generator.

I saw the photos from RedImport but my generator doesn't have mounting screws in that location.  Same with my wiring.  But the dotted linke mark on redimport's plate looks like the same position when my engine's left cylinder is at it's highest position (TDC) and that is where the key slot is on the cam.     

So my main question is how you time the bike? I can set the sensor at any position on the cam. But at what point on the engine (ultimate TDC?) is at about what point the magnet should start to hit the sensors?   
There are only a few ways my plate will fit into the generator. 
According to the 'key' slot on the Cam, I'm curious as to where the pickup sensors should be and where to put the magnet on the cam. 

I ground down the cam (on a lathe) to be round to fit into the dyna ignition magnet

I will need to cut slots in the mounting plate to adjust timing but there are only two screw positions around 10 and 1 o'clock.

[OldSwartout]

Since the crankshaft is a 180°, to make that system work, the sensors need to be at 90° (cam/rotor only rotates 90° between sparks) and you need two magnets at 180° in the rotor.

When I did mine (half-speed alternator like yours), I just put a setscrew in the rotor, so it could be rotated anywhere on the rounded-off cam and didn't have to worry about timing the rotor to the cam and keyway, just rotate it to where it was needed and tighten it. After I got everything adjusted, I did put loctite on it.

To do mine, I put a second magnet in the rotor, with a lot of experimentation to get it very close to 180°.  I used the same KZ1000 set you have since it was the most plentiful and cheapest to buy used. I used a BS mounting plate and mounted the sensors on it, but turning down the Kaw plate should work also. You have to modify (hacksaw) one of the sensors to get them mounted at 90°.  There is a photo and some description of my conversion here: http://bridgestonemotorcycleparts.com/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view;id=291

FWIW, The ideal Dyna S kit for conversion of a half-speed alternator is the DS1-3 for the early GL1000.  It  already has the sensors at 90° and I believe it has a two magnet rotor (although I haven't confirmed that).  If I do another one, I'll look for one of those.

The KZ1000 setup works easier in the late 175/200 and 350 with full speed alternators as the sensors are 180° apart and only one magnet is needed. There is a thread here on the 350 conversion that includes plenty of photos: http://bridgestonemotorcycleparts.com/index.php?topic=3645.0

If you're interested, I have a lot more detailed photos of the 175 conversion if you want me to email them to you.

[jjwithers]

How do you know my crankshaft is a 180°?
And yes, I would love more photos and info sent to jjwithers at gmail.

My original points set up had the points opposite one another, not at 90°.  I originally bought the 90° GL1000 system based on reading those articles/links and then returned it for the KZ1000 system because of my original points location at 180°.

I then found out that the generators are different... after serial number 16G (or something), they switched from 180° to 90°... or vice versa....

I am assuming that since the bike ran with the points 180° apart, that is how I want the magnet/rotor and the sensors (KZ1000).

Also, my generator did not have a mounting/points plate.  And neither did my spare generator (i had to by another one because my housing was cracked).  FWIW, the second generator had the 90° points. Anyhow, That is why I ground down the KZ plate to fit the generator vs using the plate you guys speak of.

At this point, unless I am way off track, I think I will mount the KZ plate with the 180° sensors in any position.  Most likely, they will be around 10 and 4 o'clock due to lining up the wiring on the plate and the hole for the wiring that originally went to the points.  I'll try to put slight slots in the plate for slight adjustment. 

Then I will mount the rotor to the turned down cam with the set screw.  But... the big question is at what point in the engine cycle does that magnet approach the sensors??  Right now, the engine is at it's left cylinder, highest position in the cycle. 
Would that be where the magnet would be centered with the sensor?

I am still rebuilding the bike so I guess i will have to mount the engine, wire everything (coils, ignition, etc...) and then test for spark at various rotor positions? 

Setting all this properly is my main headscratcher....

[OldSwartout]

I found that the ignition triggered when the magnet was centered on the bump on the inside diameter of the sensor.  You would want that to happen at nominally 21° BTC. 

There is a service letter BSG-0046 available from this site that shows the 3 different configurations of points over the years.

I'll send you the photos from my conversion.

[bsracer]

I set up a Pertronix (for VW) a while back when I was having problems with an earlier magneto. This was on a half speed SR175 based motor. I went to the junk yard and bought a distributor out of a Porsche 914 (same as a VW). I took it apart to use the center shaft. I took it to my machinist and had him cut the cam portion off and fit it to the shaft of a Bridgestone standard armature. I mounted the Pertronix pickup to a points plate using an existing hole and making a new one. I made a mark where one of the four magnets was located on the rotor. I then spun it up with a drill motor and using a strobe light made notice of where the the mark on the rotor "stayed" in reference to the pickup. This is where the magnet in the rotor triggers the pickup. I then marked the pickup. Then the motor was rotated to 2mm before TDC on whatever cylinder (I usually use the left). My memory is fading a little here as to how I "set the timing". If I remember I used the timing marks on the trans gears (crank, clutch and ignition) just like stock and lined up the marks on the rotor and pickup by rotating the plate or housing. I left all four magnets in the Pertronix rotor since this was the half speed configuration. I did run it briefly and it seemed to work. I was finishing a different CDI magneto at the time that runs at full speed so I never really got to test it especially under race conditions. I recently dug it back out as I may use it to test a new motor I'm building. I couldn't remember how I timed it. When I get the motor together I will figure it out and post as I'm trying to use it on a full speed 200 motor. I'm also toying with a new CDI that's still only in the idea stage but if it works it might translate over to standard bikes and run lights.

As to your bike being 180 deg, two strokes singles fire once every rotation of the crankshaft, 360 deg. Since your crankshaft has two connecting rods attached to it one cylinder fires at 180 deg the other at 360 deg, so every 180 deg.

paul

p.s. I don't really mess with the stock bikes. I think you can see the difference in the timing marks on the two different ignition housings in your pics. The little hash marks appear to be in different positions probably corresponding to whether the points fire at 90 or 180 deg and the position of the points plate (remember the reason the points fire at 90 deg is because the ignition is turning at half the speed of the crankshaft. This is necessary to achieve the same firing of as the full speed 180 deg).