Bridgestone Motorcycle Parts Discussion Board
Bridgestone Tech Talk => 350 Talk => Topic started by: CL-100 on January 06, 2019, 02:10:51 PM
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I found myself in need of doing some Bridgestone work during the holidays as I waited for the welder to open back up. Apparently, there isn't much of a call for welding during the Christmas/New Year's school vacation days. I had purchased a 350 parts motor back in early October in order to get the clutch, transmission, and kick start units for an upcoming project. The motor was mostly complete so I thought I'd take the carbs apart and clean/rebuild them. I disassembled them one at a time, ran them through the ultrasonic cleaner a few times as this engine is the dirtiest one I've ever seen. I had to wait for a decent weather day in order to spend some time outside with the Dremel tool and finish the cleaning and polishing. (I don't do any dirty work in my workshop). I also spent some time tracing back the individual passages on an old carb body I had in order to learn how the carb moved fuel and air. I learned a lot but a couple of the passages I couldn't figure out until I submerged the carb body in a bucket of water and forced air through various openings with a syringe and tubing.
Anyway, pictures of the finished products are below. I'm off to the welder tomorrow.
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Looking good!
...bert
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Very nice.
Were you able to get the "needle jet" (#17 in parts manual) out and get it & the shaft it fits into real clean? I found when cleaning 3 set of carbs, that even after using my ultrasonic cleaner, it was still quite gummed up & dirty when I pulled those out.
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I had no problem cleaning the needle jet piece and the orifices. When I go to use the ultrasonic cleaner I fill it with a 4:1 solution of Simple Green and water. I let the cleaner heat the water up to about 50-55 degrees C with the parts already soaking in the solution. Once everything is good and warmed up, I turn the ultrasonic cleaner on for a 20 minute cycle. I don't like the noise this thing makes so I always leave the room and work on something else. Therefore, the parts have a tendency to sit in the warm water for quite a while after the cycle ends. When I return, I pull the parts out and squirt through all the orifices with WD40. I personally feel that WD40 isn't the panacea of cleaning solutions but for temporary light cleaning and lubing it works. If it doesn't seem that all the openings are good and clear, I'll run the ultrasonic cycle again.
These carbs were mostly dirty from old dried up gas and oil. During disassembly I had the most difficulty in getting the slides out. They seem to be pretty delicate so I don't use metal tools to try and move them up the shaft. I use a lot of penetrating oil and sometimes run it through the ultrasonic machine partially assembled in order to loosen parts up. Interestingly enough, I guess a previous owner had been in the carbs before as the choke plunger spring was missing in one of the carbs.
Hope this helps.
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I had no problem cleaning the needle jet piece and the orifices. When I go to use the ultrasonic cleaner I fill it with a 4:1 solution of Simple Green and water. I let the cleaner heat the water up to about 50-55 degrees C with the parts already soaking in the solution. Once everything is good and warmed up, I turn the ultrasonic cleaner on for a 20 minute cycle. I don't like the noise this thing makes so I always leave the room and work on something else. Therefore, the parts have a tendency to sit in the warm water for quite a while after the cycle ends. When I return, I pull the parts out and squirt through all the orifices with WD40. I personally feel that WD40 isn't the panacea of cleaning solutions but for temporary light cleaning and lubing it works. If it doesn't seem that all the openings are good and clear, I'll run the ultrasonic cycle again.
These carbs were mostly dirty from old dried up gas and oil. During disassembly I had the most difficulty in getting the slides out. They seem to be pretty delicate so I don't use metal tools to try and move them up the shaft. I use a lot of penetrating oil and sometimes run it through the ultrasonic machine partially assembled in order to loosen parts up. Interestingly enough, I guess a previous owner had been in the carbs before as the choke plunger spring was missing in one of the carbs.
Hope this helps.
thanks you for the nice write up! i use an electric heat gun to move slides that are stuck from old gas's gum; works very well every time.
zip strip paint remover removes any amount of dried gas-gum from gas tanks.
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More winter work. While I was waiting for the welder to finish on my 350 frame I thought I'd tackle something on my BS50 Sport, which will be my next project. I've been collecting parts for the 50 for a while and I decided to try and replace the seat cover myself. I had bought a Pit Replica cover a while back so after some online research I gave it a try.
The old cover had a number of punctures and small rips so I could only guess what the foam was going to be like. I forgot to take pictures of the uncovered seat foam but I was pleasantly surprised. The foam was wrapped with light clear plastic that was mostly intact. The underside of the seat cover had a large-ish water stain, but the foam was in great condition. I bent all the seat pan prongs out, removed the trim pieces, taped the plastic covering back in place and went at it. I did use a heat gun quite a bit to stretch the vinyl, but it went on without too much trouble. The cut of the Pit Replica cover was a little wide in middle down both sides. This took a little maneuvering in order to get it to line up correctly with the prongs. The hardware holding the trim pieces on was in pretty bad shape so I substituted 3mm panhead screws, flat washers, lock washers, and nuts. The 3mm panheads and a flat washer fit perfectly in the channel on the backside of the trim strips.
All in all, I'm happy with the way it turned out.
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CL, First class job on the seat and a great solution for fixing the trim strip. Couldn't look any better had you sent it out to a professional seat resto company.
Brian.
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Looks great!
...bert
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You are the seat man! iagree. Jeff Bar
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Thanks to all for the nice comments. As this was my first attempt at recovering a seat, I'm pleased with the outcome.
Rowland
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GREAT JOB on the seat. I had mine done 25 years ago and it still looks great. Harry
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Harry,
Thanks for your positive comments.
Rowland
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Great job Rowland.
Cheers Ray
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WOW!!! What a great job. I had mine reupholstered in the late 90s and it still looks good.
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Yet some more winter work. These are before and after pictures of a 350 dynamo I refurbished from a parts motor I bought last fall. I hooked the dynamo up to a drill and an electric meter to make sure it was generating voltage and it works well. I'm currently working on front fork lowers for a cafe project and will post those pictures soon.
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Very nice!
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Looks great, and a very nice finish.
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Nice restoration, looks better than new. Did one myself last year, if you haven't done it (can't tell) would recommend lacquering the iron core or it will rust. I also ran beads of engine case sealant around the core before assembling in an attempt to keep water out. Brian.
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I haven't cleared the core yet. I have three of these sitting on the shelf right now for various projects and noticed the first one starting to rust. For now, I cleaned it with Mother's and treated it with White Diamond metal polish. I then packed it in a large freezer zip lock with a couple of desiccants in it. Once the weather warms, I'll clear them all.
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CL. Wow that seat is nice, you did a great job. Sam
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Although it's Spring time now, I did this work a few months ago. This is still the parts motor I bought in the Fall and my first attempt at removing a cylinder with a stuck piston. Oddly, on the right side of the engine the piston was free but the majority of the abuse and corrosion on this engine is on the right side. The inside of the cylinders are clean with no damage or chips in the chrome lining. I started with a couple of different cans of penetrating oil, a wooden dowel, rubber mallet, and a lot of patience. No joy. I decided to drop the lower case and see if that helped somehow. That really just made the management of the pieces more trouble. The top portion of the piston with the rings was visible through the exhaust port but nothing I did would move it up or down in the cylinder. Eventually I came up with the scheme you can see in the first picture. I was able to get the cylinder up and put some steel spacers between the cylinder and the top case. I used a large heavy-duty puller and mounted two of the three legs diagonally on the cylinder. I usually use this puller, from Tusk, to split crankcases and remove crank covers. I was able to thread the center bolt down on to the piston and using a larger ratchet and more oil, I eventually pushed the piston down the cylinder until it was resting on the crankcase top. Although it didn't push the piston out of the cylinder, it pushed it down far enough to get to the wrist pin. I rigged up a homemade puller and with long 8mm bolts/nuts, multiple washers and a socket that allowed me to pull the pin far enough out of the connecting rod, I got the cylinder and piston off. Once the cylinder was off I was able to set the cylinder on some wooden blocks and push the piston the remaining way out of the cylinder with more oil, the wooden dowel and a rubber mallet. If you look at the second picture, the piston on the left was the one stuck and you can see a dimple on the top from the threaded bolt pushing it down. The rings are deeply seated and stuck in the landings. The other piston is the right side piston after I cleaned it up. I'm still surprised that the inside of the cylinders are undamaged.
Not sure I'm looking to dismantle a stuck motor again anytime soon, but it does teach you a lot.
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Nice job getting that apart, especially, without further damage! I'm not sure I'd have the patience.
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The last motor I unstuck (word?) taught me that I have very little patience...lol. I have one on the bench right now that is a 10 on the stuckness scale. One side was perfect, but on the other had been left with no spark plug so the cylinder was open to the elements and filled with water. I've given up twice and I'm not sure I'll get back to it. C'est la vie!
...bert
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I once worked with a City Manager that had a sign in his office reading "Patience is an over-rated virtue." Fortunately for me, I outlasted his tenure.
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That's one corroded piston, well done on getting it out with no damage to the chrome or cylinder spigots. Very satisfying !
Crank and cases useable ?
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The crankcases turned out to be one of the better parts. I needed to replace the damaged cases from another set. The numbers on this set happen to be within two hundred of the damaged cases. I'm working on my third 350 project bike and have now collected all parts needed for a fourth 350 motor. I really enjoy the restoration of the engines more than any other phase of a project. I'm going to shift to 175/200 engines next.
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You really do nice work, always enjoy your postings, Thanks
Jeff McBrayer
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I picked up a SR175 recently. Surprisingly most everything has come apart without too much effort. Except for one of the cylinders. The first one came off with some struggle at first then came free. With some over excitement thinking the second one would be similar, the spigot broke. Never had one this stuck before.
paul
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First of all, congratulations on getting a SR175. I saw one several years ago at Barber that had been restored. It had previously been raced and still had an extended swingarm on it. Today, I would jump on the opportunity to restore one.
Since you've already separated the top and bottom cases like I did let me tell you in more detail how I proceeded. Maybe some of this will work for you too. First of all, my small workshop is in the basement of my home and if I use any sort of petroleum based solvent, my wife says she can smell it upstairs. Makes her unhappy and we all know how that works. If you want to try and push it out the bottom as I did, you can start by propping the upper case, crank, and cylinder in a plastic tub. I did this to get the piston as level as possible so that the penetrating oil would sit in the perimeter of the cylinder. Putting it in the tub let me set the tub in a storage shed, separate from the basement and contain any leaking fluids. Happy wife, happy life. After a while I noticed that the oil was penetrating slowly so I decided to take it up a notch. Once the puller was in place as a pusher I would put some tension on the piston, soak it penetrating oil and leave it sit for a least one day. When I went back to it, I could tighten the bolt down some and the piston would pop and move down the cylinder a little. Sometimes I could get it to move two or three times before it would bind again. I'd put it under tension and soak it again for another day or more. More popping and slow progress, but it was moving. I probably did this for two weeks before the piston skirt made contact with the upper case. When the piston pops, it's loud and you're sure that something broke. It always amazed me that the cylinder lining wasn't marked or damaged at all. I assume that my judicious use of penetrating oil helped. I probably used three spray cans worth of the oil. By the way, PB Blaster has never worked for me and it smells bad. I was also able to get the cylinder out of the upper case even though the piston was still connected to the rod and crank. If you can, it helps to space the bottom of the cylinder from the upper case as you do this. It would be way easier to get that piston out if it were separated from the connecting rod and crank. I chose to do it the hard way in order to preserve those parts. In the end, I soaked the crank, with all the bearings and connecting rods in place, in Evaporust for about two months. There was so much dried oil and gas on the parts I couldn't tell for sure what was corrosion and what was gunk. This is still the dirtiest motor I have ever seen. It turned out to be more corrosion that gunk and I'm not sure the crank can be salvaged without some grinding on the webs. And then there's the ever elusive hunt for two outer bearings. I always thought that if I were to do this again, I'd try using an ATF and MEK mix for at least the first part of the soaking process. Dangerous stuff and I'd probably not let it sit inside the house or shed.
Now that I've written this, I guess it depends on where the piston is in the cylinder before deciding the best way to proceed. Good Luck and be patient. Sometimes you just have to walk away from it for a while.
Rowland
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Jeff, thanks for the compliment.
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Wow Paul, that is a dead ringer for the motor I'm exasperated with (other than being a 175). Some of these old stuck motors are probably beyond saving (sacrilegious on this site, I know...;-)
...bert
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I've had some pretty good luck in the past. I've been working on old stuff going back to Vespas and Lambrettas back in the 80's. Using a puller to try and push against the piston and it broke on this one. It's sitting soaking while I get my 175 racer ready for my first race toward the end of the month.
paul
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BRAVISSIMO !!!!!
Although it's Spring time now, I did this work a few months ago. This is still the parts motor I bought in the Fall and my first attempt at removing a cylinder with a stuck piston. Oddly, on the right side of the engine the piston was free but the majority of the abuse and corrosion on this engine is on the right side. The inside of the cylinders are clean with no damage or chips in the chrome lining. I started with a couple of different cans of penetrating oil, a wooden dowel, rubber mallet, and a lot of patience. No joy. I decided to drop the lower case and see if that helped somehow. That really just made the management of the pieces more trouble. The top portion of the piston with the rings was visible through the exhaust port but nothing I did would move it up or down in the cylinder. Eventually I came up with the scheme you can see in the first picture. I was able to get the cylinder up and put some steel spacers between the cylinder and the top case. I used a large heavy-duty puller and mounted two of the three legs diagonally on the cylinder. I usually use this puller, from Tusk, to split crankcases and remove crank covers. I was able to thread the center bolt down on to the piston and using a larger ratchet and more oil, I eventually pushed the piston down the cylinder until it was resting on the crankcase top. Although it didn't push the piston out of the cylinder, it pushed it down far enough to get to the wrist pin. I rigged up a homemade puller and with long 8mm bolts/nuts, multiple washers and a socket that allowed me to pull the pin far enough out of the connecting rod, I got the cylinder and piston off. Once the cylinder was off I was able to set the cylinder on some wooden blocks and push the piston the remaining way out of the cylinder with more oil, the wooden dowel and a rubber mallet. If you look at the second picture, the piston on the left was the one stuck and you can see a dimple on the top from the threaded bolt pushing it down. The rings are deeply seated and stuck in the landings. The other piston is the right side piston after I cleaned it up. I'm still surprised that the inside of the cylinders are undamaged.
Not sure I'm looking to dismantle a stuck motor again anytime soon, but it does teach you a lot.
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Patience..... something I ran out of!
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That's a club l definitely joined
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Yep, I'm a member of that club too DM!
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l wonder how many are in this club?
Time to own up.
It's strange that on programs like wheeler dealers on the telly everything comes apart easily and goes back together just the same surely it's time to see them (mechanics) lose there temper and break something rather than watch the perfect world they live in ld like to see them unsieze a 175 hurricane that's a programme ld watch
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Yep, me too. I've beaten parts to death in sheer frsutration when they wouldn't come apart :'( . Fortunately, not when working on a Bridgestone....................... can't just go down to the scrap yard and get another one :( .
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... can't just go down to the scrap yard and get another one :( .
But there's always E-bay. You can usually find one that someone else has beaten apart. ;D