Bridgestone Motorcycle Parts Discussion Board
Bridgestone Tech Talk => 350 Talk => Topic started by: reed on August 13, 2012, 08:52:33 PM
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Vapor blasting.
I have another GTR so i have split the crankcases to be Vapor blasted.
So picture of the crankcase now and when they are done i will post a
Picture all cleaned up etc.
Thanks.
Steve.
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Hey Steve,
Anxious to see the results. Hopefully it will work as good as the tumbling I have used in the past. This will be much faster and a lot less money.
Later Mike
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Mike,
Lets see the results when its done.
All the Vapor blasting i have had done
In the past as worked out for me.
Thanks.
Steve.
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Steve, is this something you're doing in-house or are you sending them to an outside vendor?
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Mike,
I would love a Vapor blaster its the time factor for me.
The crankcases are going to Rice Relics in NC not that
Far from me and we will see how it turns out!
Thanks.
Steve.
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Steve, I too will also be curious to see the results from Rice Relics. I posted a link to their website on another thread last week after I found it during one of my frenzied searches. Up until then, I'd only heard about 2 other places that catered to motorcycle stuff... the one in Oregon and the other in Minnesota.
What I liked about Rice Relics was their offer to pay for the shipping of parts both ways! That would cut quite a bit off the cost of having this work done. What I wasn't impressed with, was the pictures of their finished product. It doesn't seem to be anywhere near the results shown by the other 2 vendors. I know pictures can be deceiving, maybe the others were of parts that were fairly clean to begin with while Rice Relics is showing what it can do with the dirtiest of engines. Who knows, but I guess we'll soon find out! ;D
Here's the links to all 3 places. (Mods & Rockers website is not up and running, so I linked an example of their results from another bike site)
1. http://ricerelics.com/index.html (http://ricerelics.com/index.html)
2. http://www.vaporblasting.biz/index.html (http://www.vaporblasting.biz/index.html)
3. Mods and Rockers Mankato, MN
( Mods & Rockers finished product example ) http://www.jockeyjournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=66416 (http://www.jockeyjournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=66416)
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Steve & Moonpup,
Thanks for resurrecting the vapor blasting discussion which I initially instigated in the thread Discussion about vapor, bead, or other media blasting and metal polishing
http://bridgestonemotorcycleparts.com/index.php?topic=1422.msg5110#msg5110 (http://bridgestonemotorcycleparts.com/index.php?topic=1422.msg5110#msg5110)
Fascinating.
I'm totally convinced its the way to go to bring out the beauty of original pieces without damaging the piece being worked.
A very passive process with a beautiful result.
The forum Moonpup supplied show the product results...over and over again........of course with the acquired skill of working with this process.
http://www.jockeyjournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=66416 (http://www.jockeyjournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=66416)
Example:
DBD34 BSA Gold Star before and after vapor blasting.
(http://i170.photobucket.com/albums/u272/66triton/1962%20BSA%20DBD34%20Gold%20Star%20project/IMG_5238-Version2.jpg)
(http://i170.photobucket.com/albums/u272/66triton/1962%20BSA%20DBD34%20Gold%20Star%20project/IMG_6782-Version2.jpg)
The website may not be current or updated, but I bet you still can contact Peter with the info included in my original post.
Mods & Rockers
1106 Marsh Street, Mankato MN 56001
507-779-4000
peter@modsrockers.com
http://www.modsrockers.com/index.html (http://www.modsrockers.com/index.html)
If this hombre is still alive and kicking, he'd be my first choice for primo results........the forum link shows his care and detail work over and over again......regardless of the piece being worked.
Regards,
Steve Koontz
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The result looks very nice, but does the satin represent a factory finish?
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The result looks very nice, but does the satin represent a factory finish?
No, but is sure is purty! (btw... that's Texan for pretty ::) )
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It's perty here in Alabama. I like original finishes better. Just my tcw.
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ztnoo, you'll get no dispute from me about the quality of work from Mods & Rockers or the other place in Oregon. My problem is that there are no vendors anywhere close to me and the additional cost I'd incur with shipping is a deal breaker.
If Rice Relics can put out the same quality, it would be a no brainer with their free shipping offer! ;D
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Bikenstein,
At this point 50 years out............probably not.
If you want that look, put yourself in a time capsule and dial in the date.
You will probably be accepting of what you find.
If you are looking at something close to a 100 point restoration at THIS point in time, I think you would be absolutely thrilled with the results of vapor blasting.
C'est la vie................
;)
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I think.......in today's world..............the cost of shipping is plugged into the up front labor cost you (or anyone) will pay.
How could it be otherwise???
No one is intentionally giving anything away right now.
Why would they??
Maybe our current President could initiate a "Cash for Clunkers" program for the restoration of vintage Japanese motorcycles...............cost would not be a problem at all............our beloved Federal government would pick up the tab.
You take something you care absolutely nothing about to get crushed and get paid dinero to restore the bike of your dreams.
Vapor blasting included.
Eureka!
What a great deal!
Sounds great, eh??
Where do I sign up??
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I think.......in today's world..............the cost of shipping is plugged into the up front labor cost you (or anyone) will pay.
How could it be otherwise???
No one is intentionally giving anything away right now.
Why would they?
Maybe because they're new and trying to drum up business?
I have no idea why, but their price is $30 per large part with shipping paid while Bikesalot (Oregon) is $35 per large part and you pay shipping/ins. Since Mods & Rockers website doesn't work, I have no numbers for them. So, I guess someone really is "intentionally giving" something away!
As for the rest of the gobbledegook you posted, ......"sigh"
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Never done a 10 point restoration I guess I just like the different shades and textures of the metal aged or new. Sest la vee
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Lets give this gentleman a chance at his work, he is on my doorstep.
And i get to meet him, i have had a lot of vapor blasting done back
In the UK so when i get the crankcase back i will post pictures and
I will tell you about his work, vapor blasting is the way to go i am no
Stranger to this service it saves time and money.
Thanks.
Steve.
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its the way to go i will get my hubs done this way one day
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Had these vapor blasted locally, not too bling.
Z
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ziggy,
Got any other pics of those heads and barrels???
Regards,
Steve
(http://www.thegorgeousdaily.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/07/David-Bowie-2.jpg)
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Hi Steve,
Got this.
Z
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And this.
Z
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And finally this.
Z
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It took a lot of hard work to clean mine and Richard crankcases on the Bridgestone GTR.
So to have someone doing this service close will save me a lot of time.
Thanks.
Steve.
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Today i was working on a set of( carbs 755A) 1975 Honda GL1000.
And to clean the carbs i use a ultrasonic cleaner so i just cleaned
One side so you can see the difference and this is all done with water.
Thanks.
Steve.
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Here is something off the vaporblasting.biz site that was linked earlier.
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You can save money on vaporblasting by sending in only your sand-cast and textured parts starting with the cylinder heads, cylinders, and crankcases. The die-cast parts or painted or polished sidecovers will never vaporblast as perfectly as parts with a sand-cast texture. You can clean these yourself and save money.
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So maybe most of the really pretty pictures you see are sand cast parts. Actually looking at a few of them it appears that way. The parts you see on Rice Relics are die cast. Still nice results though.
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Thanks for pointing that out scrambler, but now for my "newb" question of the day......how do you tell the difference between sand cast vs. die cast? Are certain parts always one or the other? And lastly, what parts on our bridgestones (if any) are sand cast? ???
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Sand cast parts usually have a sandy or textured surface to them. Not always though depending on how they may have been finished. Some die cast parts may also have a texture cast into them.
I'm not 100% sure but I don't think any of the parts on a 350 would have been sand cast.
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Hi,
One tell tale sign is to look at the core side of the part, usally the inside surface. Tooled / injected cast parts you will see ejector pin marks. Round pins that are used to eject the part from the mold. On sand cast parts there is no need for these as a wax part is placed into sand - mold is then heated to melt the wax and to seal the sand. After poring in the casting material and then cooled, the sand mold is just broken open. You can also see that the actually casting is a bit rougher than ejection cast parts. Usially wall sections are also a bit thicker.
The only part I have seen so far from a Bridgestone that is sand cast is the SR-175 carb covers. I am assuming that maybe the SR-100 right side cover is also sand cast.
later .. ray
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The cylinders are sand cast.
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Some of the cylinders are sand cast and some are die cast. Depends on the model.
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Vapor blasting.
I have had sand cast parts and die cast parts vapor blasted with good results.
When i get the cases back i will take pictures outside so you can see the finish.
Thanks.
Steve.
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Honda GL 1000 1975 carbs all done and ready to go back on the motorcycle.
Thanks.
Steve.
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Good job as always Steve!
BTW..... here's a youtube video from Rice Relics.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-jRkKrbR160&feature=youtu.be# (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-jRkKrbR160&feature=youtu.be#)
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that's nice, I might just have to send some stuff out.
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I met Johnathan Wise( Rice Relics). at my workshop today.
To look at some more engine parts to be Vapor blasted.
And i am going to put together a GTR display engine for
Shows etc, right now he is working on crankcases for me and we
Will have pictures next week,Johnathan phone number is
704 530 1009 when you see his work you will not be disappointed.
Thanks.
Steve.
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Picture of one of the old cylinders to be vapor blasted etc.
Thanks.
Steve.
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Picture of cylinder after its been vapor blasted.
Thanks.
Steve.
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Picture of the cylinder head that's been vapor blasted( note this was a old head off my GTR.)
Thanks.
Steve.
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Picture of one of the hubs this is the first clean.
Thanks.
Steve.
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Picture of the first clean on the crankcase etc.
Thanks.
Steve.
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Steve,
Please define and describe what you mean by "first clean" for those of us who have no clue or little information about the process.
Also, a second clean or end process pic would be helpful.
I don't think many here have much of a clue.
Be our teacher.
;)
Thanks.
Regards,
Steve
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On all the parts this is the first clean then he will clean them again.
The hub i can not wait to polish etc.
All this work was done Rice Relics tel 704 530 1009 and ask for
Johnathan and tel him you are from this site and he will look
After you.
Thanks.
Steve.
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Steve,
The pictures are from Johnathan i don't have the parts back yet!
This is the first clean then he lets them dry out then they go back
For a second round i will post pictures when i get then, i sent him
A lot of parts, he has is work cut out, Johnathan will join the site
And he will do a article on vapor blasting etc he will answer your all
Questions.
Thanks.
Steve Reed.
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I have one more for you to look at etc.
Thanks.
Steve.
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Cool 8)
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I have more pictures of the cylinders and look how clean the cylinder has come up.
After Vapor blasting!
Thanks.
Steve.
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The cylinder never looked that good when new! Any thoughts on how long they'll stay looking like that?
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Rowland,
The finish will last a long time, i have motorcycles back at home that the aluminium still looks good after being vapor blasted for years.
My next step is to rebuild my Porsche 911 so i will have my crankcases and cylinders there are six of them and some covers to be cleaned.
Then vapor blasted, i am looking forward to this project the car run great now but it has some oil leaks i want to clear up, this is a picture of my engine now.
Thanks.
Steve.
PS my Porsche 911 SC is a 1982 so there are a few upgrades to do.
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All the Vapor blasting is done so its on its way back to me!
So i can start polishing up the parts etc.
Thanks ;D.
Steve.
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On the vapor blasting i get all the part back by next Friday, i sent him a lot!
Then i will take pictures with the parts on the motorcycles i can not wait.
Thanks.
Steve.
PS i forgot to say he is picking up some motorcycles from me and that's why
Its a week later.
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Tomorrow is the big day i get all my cylinders and crankcases back that have been vapor blasted.
Then i can put my cylinders and heads back on my GTR. :)
Thanks.
Steve.
PS Mark i can finish your engine off with very clean crankcases.
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This is a picture of the cylinders i got back today after being vapor blasted.
If i get some time tomorrow, i will put them on and take more pictures with
The exhausts on.
Thanks
Steve.
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I had 2 sets of crankcases done this is the first.
Thanks.
Steve.
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Excellent results with this process Steve. What an improvement on the cases. Mark.
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They look better than new. I like this finish better than paint.
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He's missed a bit. ;)
Z
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Looks ok Steve
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Looks great! Next bike I do I will be trying this out.
So is any sort of coating needed after this? Usually after a media blast you need to seal the aluminum back up with something otherwise any oil stains it right away and you can't wipe it off.
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nice
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Now i am happy with the results of vapor blasting the cylinders look clean and sharp looking....
And looks in my opinion better than new.
Thanks go out to Rice relics for doing a great job on mine and Richards cylinders.
Also people were telling me about Johnathan at Rice Relics but i had no phone number.
So Thanks to Moonpup he found the web site, and then i gave them a call etc.
Steve Reed.
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Hi Steve,
Looks amazing, can't wait to get my stuff. This will be much better than tumbling the parts. Thanks so much for setting this up for everyone. Talk soon.
Later Mike
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Mike,
Your crankcases you sent me are on the way to Rice Relics.
Thanks.
Steve.
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Glad I could help you out with the website Steve. BTW, the site now says he's charging by the hour where as before it was by the piece. Can you confirm which it is?
Thanks, Mike
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Theres a lot more going on with this set of cases than meets the eye. I was happy with them even before Steve sent them out. Now they look even better. They have had a repair as well and now you just about have to know where the repair was done in order to pick it out. The cylinders are really sharp. I think Jonathan is going to be very busy. Thanks, Mark.
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Mike,
Its by the hour and its only 25.00 per hour you can get a lot done in a hour!!
His operating costs are high they run a 220 compressor all day long plus
Water and materials,if you send say small parts he will break the price
Down for you, but if you send him the crankcases and the cylinders and
Heads plus some small parts you will get more for your money, he know
All about the Bridgestone site and he will take good Care of all the
Members that will use is services etc, just reminder the cost in the UK
For vapor blasting is a lot more money,Johnathan provides a very
Provisional service( i am very pleased with the work that i had done.)
Thanks.
Steve.
Rice Relics 704 530 1009.
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Everything in the U.K. costs more. >:(
Z
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Steve...... if everything is okie-dokie with you, then it's certainly hunky-dory by me! ;D :o :o ;D
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When i decided to have my heads and cylinders vapor blasted.
The engine was in the frame and its tight to remove the cylinders.
So first thing i removed the seat and the fuel tank, ignition switch
And horn,exhausts plus exhaust studs then undo the head nuts
Remove the head and then very carefully remove the cylinder etc.
To put the cylinder back on after vapor blasting i put two stroke
Down the bore, put the piston on the piston stand set up the rings
So that the ring are in the middle of the pin to stop the ring from
Moving around ,then i put the ring compressor on we are ready to
Lower the cylinder over the piston as you can see in the picture.
once the rings are in the bore i went ahead and removed the
Rind compressor and piston stand, re- torque the head down.
Thanks.
Steve.
P S i put bubble wrap around the frame down tubes so the cylinder does not mark the frame.
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Hey Steve, good photo and description.
Here is another method for the benefit of our readers should any need it.
I took a different approach with the engine on the bench by fitting the pistons in the barrels with just the two middle circlips fitted, then lowering the barrels down on the studs I was then able to align the little ends and insert the gudgeon pins from either side, fit the circlips and then slide home, all well lubed with 2 stroke oil.
The nylon brush handle in the photo was just the right diameter to tap the gudgeon pins home once located, heating the pistons prior to assembly can help here.
New gaskets and circlips, no penny pinching.
One other thing I did was to smear a light coat of copper anti seize to the studs to prevent a reaction between the steel and aluminium, I also do this with all the fasteners on the bike.
(http://bridgestonemotorcycleparts.com/gallery/1350_23_08_12_7_17_24.jpeg)
Z
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Good tips on the bubble wrap frame and the anti-seize. I used to have a piston pin tool for pushin and pullin. I guess I'll have to make another one. I never did like tappin the pins in, but that's ok if you support the rod. With the cylinder over the studs I guess this would relieve any side thrust on the rod or bearings. Nice clean motors ;D
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Lee,
I always put the cylinders on with the engine out of the frame but i wanted to vapor blast the cylinders, on the studs i like to replace
Them they come out easy and they are very inexpensive and i use to coat them with CU 100 anti-corrosion copper paste but i use now
ACF-50 it comes from the aviation industry in the UK and i just spray it on the studs,on all of the six GTR engines i have built so far, i
Always anneal the head gaskets even if they are new you definitely get a better seal, i like the way you keep every thing clean in the
Picture you are like me when rebuilding a engine.
Thanks.
Steve.
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Reed or Ziggy-
During removal of my cylinders, it seemed like I could get the piston and rings to start back in the bottom of the cylinder skirt without a ring compressor. Is that because I was testing the assembly technique with old rings still on the pistons, or is it still possible to get new pistons and rings installed without the compressor tool?
It seemed like the skirt area had a pretty wide opening taper to me.
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Old Smokey,
I believe the cylinder taper is put there specifically to ease the insertion of the piston and rings. The transfer port cuts in the cylinder let you help the rings along with your fingers, making it easy to feel when the ring gap is correctly centered on the alignment pin in the ring groove. That's how I remember doing it at the BS Service School, although that was a L-O-N-G time ago!
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Triumph head.
I sent off this Triumph head for vapor blasting look how clean its come up!!
So now i will re cut the seats and fit new valve guides etc.
Thanks.
Steve.
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Nice head there Steve.
Regarding the ACF 50, when I got my RE5M a number of years ago it was a basket case, stood for 32 years but I'd read about this revolutionary product ACF-50 so decided to spray the whole bike with it while waiting a decision over winter whether to restore it or not. Not cheap at £15 per can and I used two, yes about $50.
Z
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Lee,
The reason that i use ACF-50 is this when i ultrasonic a set of carbs say off a Kawasaki z1000 the carbs are pulled down.
Put into the ultrasonic tank for about 20 minutes out off the tank to be blown with air outside in the sun to dry-out or i
Have a bench oven for the winter time, now inside my ultrasonic is water based so when i rebuild the carbs and fit the
Starter plungers four of them i would use WD-40 or freeze-off inside the chamber and it would work fine finish off the
Rebuilding the carbs and out they go back to the customer maybe a week to get there and then another week before
Going back on the Kawasaki but by then the plungers stick in the chamber the only thing that has worked for me is ACF-50.
I spray it on every set of carbs that i do now and i never have a problem, now when i removed the cylinders from both GTR
For vapor blasting the new studs looked like new cylinders came off very easy, i get my ACF-50 from my local Airport they
Use it a lot, it works for me rather than the messy CU- 100 i am always looking for new products that make my life easier
Thanks.
Steve.
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Good tips Steve, I've heard about starter plungers sticking.
I might be tempted to buy one can and use it sparingly.
Speaking of things to make life easier I have Janet the wife, I call her my third hand and when I need a little help to hold this thing while I thread this through here and so forth she's always available when I call. :)
Z
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On Steve's recommendation I sent quite a few parts out to Rice Relics for vapor blasting.
(http://www.scramblercycle.com/uploads/3/8/9/5/3895611/7351018_orig.jpg)
The blasted parts look fantastic! Nice smooth surface that I believe will be resistant to oil and fingerprints.
Thanks for the recommendation on this Steve!
(http://www.scramblercycle.com/uploads/3/8/9/5/3895611/1415223_orig.jpg)
(http://www.scramblercycle.com/uploads/3/8/9/5/3895611/8839440_orig.jpg)
(http://www.scramblercycle.com/uploads/3/8/9/5/3895611/6217392_orig.jpg)
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Kevin,
I glad you are please with his work it saves a lot of time, post a picture of the Kawasaki engine when its together.
And i hope you don't have too much snow.
Thanks.
Steve.