Author Topic: kick starter not fully returning  (Read 1801 times)

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Offline down under

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kick starter not fully returning
« on: July 14, 2016, 02:54:24 AM »
kickstarter not fully returning ,after kicking a full stroke ,kickstarter will come back around half way ,so spring is not broken ,just doesnot seem tensioned enough,hoe to fix,pleas any advise??

Offline BRT-GTR

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Re: kick starter not fully returning
« Reply #1 on: July 14, 2016, 08:05:30 AM »
            First of all, can the kicklever be lifted back up to the normal rest position and can you feel a positive stop. If so, either the spring is broken or it may have been put back on the shaft 180deg out of position. Unfortunately a full engine strip down is required to correct these faults due to the spring being inside the main crankcase. I am not aware that broken springs are a common issue but I stand to be corrected. 

   However, it may just be that the kickstart spring was not correctly tensioned during a stripdown , sometime in the past. The tensioner stop is located on the right side end of the kick shaft, behind the kick ratchet. You do have to strip the right side of the engine to get at it, so not a quick fix, I'm afraid.
   Once accessed, remove the combined kickgear/rev counter drive from the end of the kick shaft by taking off the circlip. Behind is the kick ratchet, which should be held against it's stopper plate by spring tension. If not, simply removed the stopper plate, using the kicklever turn the shaft and ratchet back counter clockwise past the stopper plate and refit  the plate. There should be about half a turn spring pre-tension on the kick shaft. It is detailed in the manual but is better understood when you have the parts in front of you. Check the ratchet pawl spring while you can get at it, these have a habit of becoming squashed.

 Let us know how you go on and feel free to come back with any questions. Good luck,  Brian.
« Last Edit: July 14, 2016, 03:41:40 PM by BRT-GTR »
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Offline CL-100

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Re: kick starter not fully returning
« Reply #2 on: February 17, 2018, 03:41:29 PM »
I'm probably the last person on this site to figure this out but I thought I'd post some pictures to possibly help someone else in the future.  I'm in the middle of "dry fitting" my 350 engine together in order to find out what I've done wrong before I assemble it with the sealer.  I've figured out how and where all the dots on the gears align and had my rotary valves opening and closing at the correct times but I noticed my kick start lever return tension was weak.  I've gone through the 350 service manual as well as another thread on this subject from March 2015.  The service manual didn't make sense to me until after I figured the problem out. 

I've read elsewhere that the manual doesn't cover tensioning the kick return spring before assembling the case halves.  It appears to me that there isn't any way to do this without assembling the cases.  As soon as you start to put some tension on that spring, the whole kick unit pops up and out on the engine right side.  I suppose there's a way to do this by removing the kick stopper but mine was already firmly installed and the idler gear/tach gear was already on too. I believe it was Ridered who figured out that the spring could be tensioned without splitting the cases but I've found that only works if you've installed the tension spring correctly.  As Brian already said, the kicker spring could be installed 180 degrees off.  Anyway, there are pictures below to help explain the process.

This first picture shows that the kicker shaft has a hole drilled completely through it to anchor the return spring.  What I learned is that if you put the anchor part of the spring in the wrong end of this hole, the ratchet stopper won't line up in the correct place in order to tension the spring later.  When I first assembled mine (incorrectly) I noticed that there was a lot of slop between the time the stopper engaged and the spring began to tension.

The second picture shows where the kick shaft ratchet stopper sits when the spring is anchored in the wrong side of the hole.

The third picture shows where the kick shaft ratchet stopper sits when the spring is anchored in the correct side of the hole.

With the correct configuration I assembled my cases together and was able to set the spring tension by attaching the kick lever and pushing the kicker shaft in while rotating the lever rearward.  This clears the adjacent gear on the output shaft and lets the kick shaft ratchet mechanism move into the correct position on the kick stopper.  It's a long swing on the starter lever and you will have to pull the shaft back out once its aligned correctly and maybe rotate it a little to get the idler gear to mesh with the adjacent gear on the output shaft.  When done, you'll have about half a rotation of tension on the kick shaft.  This is basically the process Ziggy re posted on another thread.  If you're still assembling your engine and haven't installed the stopper or the idler gears yet, this will be a lot easier. 

The bad news is that if your kick return spring is anchored in the wrong hole and your engine is assembled, you'll have to split the cases to get it right. 


Offline coxy

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Re: kick starter not fully returning
« Reply #3 on: February 17, 2018, 05:00:25 PM »
is the end of your spring in good condition ? or is the recess in the case damaged
this is tensioned without the stopper in or upper case on I have not done it this way before but I will give it a crack today usually I put the casings back together then with multigrips or the kick lever tension the spring put the stopper plate on then all the gears etc
« Last Edit: February 17, 2018, 05:09:09 PM by coxy »

Offline CL-100

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Re: kick starter not fully returning
« Reply #4 on: February 17, 2018, 05:55:26 PM »
I’m not sure if I understand correctly but my spring and my cases are all good. The pictures are meant to show the position of the kicker ratchet without tension. Once the cases are together, the tension can be adjusted by pushing the shaft in and turning the shaft clockwise in order to get the ratchet stop on the shaft past the stopper.  I find it’s easiest done by using the kick starter to turn the shaft.
« Last Edit: February 18, 2018, 09:55:47 AM by CL-100 »

Offline CL-100

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Re: kick starter not fully returning
« Reply #5 on: February 17, 2018, 06:03:04 PM »
In rereading your post I believe your method is correct if your stopper and idler gear are not mounted. My unit came out of the box fully assembled and the stopper was already mounted to the case.  I was pretty far along with reassembly before I figured out the tension wasn’t right.

Offline coxy

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Re: kick starter not fully returning
« Reply #6 on: February 17, 2018, 06:51:46 PM »
sorry I thought your spring was popping out when you tensioned the spring with the cases apart

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Re: kick starter not fully returning
« Reply #7 on: February 18, 2018, 10:04:27 AM »
When you try and tension the spring without the top case on it pops the right side of the entire kick start assembly up and out of the lower case. While you can hold things together by hand with the cases apart, you will lose the tension as soon as you let go.

Offline BRT-GTR

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Re: kick starter not fully returning
« Reply #8 on: February 19, 2018, 09:24:01 AM »
          An easy way to remember the right way to insert the return spring is that it goes on the same side of the shaft as the ratchet pawl as shown in CL-100s third photo.
        (I've put a note in my Parts Manual)      Then with the other end of the spring hooked onto the crankcase corner, the pawl should point upwards giving half a turn pretension when wound back to the stopper.
       I found it difficult to work out and looked at lots of photos and Ebay ads before I was happy it was right.             Brian
     
« Last Edit: February 19, 2018, 04:04:48 PM by BRT-GTR »
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Offline coxy

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Re: kick starter not fully returning
« Reply #9 on: February 19, 2018, 01:50:04 PM »
have your locating dowels been pushed in ?

Offline CL-100

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Re: kick starter not fully returning
« Reply #10 on: February 19, 2018, 03:32:30 PM »
Locating dowels are all fine.  Kick start shaft bushing sit on them and hold them in place, but it's not a snug fit.

Brian, thanks for the tip.  I'll make a note of that in my manuals too.

Rowland

 


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