Author Topic: 1966 175 HS Temperature  (Read 8575 times)

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Offline Kansas

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1966 175 HS Temperature
« on: April 04, 2015, 01:41:28 AM »
I recently picked up a 66 175 HS.  It seems, sitting on the seat, that the right side runs hotter (temp) than the left side.  Is this normal, a carburetor adjustment, or reason for concern?  More oil seems to blow out of the left side as well.  While the right side tends to smoke more.  I did mix the gas, so if the oil injection is working, which I believe it is, I am rich on the mixture.  It appears that this may have been an issue many years ago because the right spark plug has been changed and was not the recommended plug, and was melted.  Could it be in the ignition coil?  My plan is to adjust the carb, but would appreciate any advice/diagnostic tips you may be willing to provide.

Also, any suggestions on testing the oil injection system would be appreciated.  I have been very cautious with this, but after so many years of not being started I really didn't mind extra oil in the mixture. 

Thank you in advance.  I will post some photos of the motorcycle soon.  I know I have enjoyed seeing everyone else's.

Offline Kansas

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Re: 1966 175 HS Temperature
« Reply #1 on: April 04, 2015, 01:54:44 AM »
I'll look for some illustrations of the injection system.  It could be that I have at least a partial blockage to the right carburator that is preventing the oil from entering the intake.  Please let me know if this is a possibility.  You will likely be able to post an answer before I will find what I am looking for!  Thanks again.

Offline BRT-GTR

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Re: 1966 175 HS Temperature
« Reply #2 on: April 04, 2015, 07:30:47 AM »
Kansas,
             Both pots should run at about the same temperature. Could be lots of reasons for overheating on the right side, which is burning the extra oil rather than spitting it out, hence more smoke. See Clymer service manual, on this site 'Manual' above, for diagram of carbs and oil injection system and guidance.  

  Not sure of easiest way to check oil pump delivery on 175, can one of our experts help. Maybe pull oil delivery tube from connection to rear of cylinder and see if a slug of oil is pushed through while kicking over, might take a lot of kicks.

   For over heating, more obvious checks are 1) Weak mixture. Clean carb (do both), check for blockages and reset adjustments. See manual.
                                                             2) Fit correct spark plug.
                                                             3) Over advanced ignition timing. Clean points, set gap and use pin on crankshaft to check ignition timing. Manual tells you how.
                                                             4) Carbon in combustion chamber.

   Hope this helps. let us know how you go on, Brian.


« Last Edit: April 04, 2015, 08:06:17 AM by BRT-GTR »
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Offline paul

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Re: 1966 175 HS Temperature
« Reply #3 on: April 04, 2015, 10:41:57 AM »
would reading temperatures with an infared temp gun provide some useful information?

Offline nickb st

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Re: 1966 175 HS Temperature
« Reply #4 on: April 04, 2015, 11:39:11 AM »
nice bike
I find the infra red temperature gauge a real help....

using premix should enable you to check pump operation - old oil and
dirt in the system can easily block / reduce the pumps effectiveness.
The seals in the pump may be failing - as might be the crank seals...

run the bike on premix into a container - the flow should be the same.

to check the crank seals a leak down tester is essential -
http://www.twostrokeracelab.com/search/label/Leak%20Down%20Tester

this guy does a tester - but its easy to make at home - I used kayak bungs
and a pump with a gauge and found the crank seals were shot on my dt
one was spitting out oil and one was hot - one side let in gear oil...

then check and clean carbs ultrasonically to remove all dirt

a lot of work but repairing a engine will cost even more

good luck - wish mine was as good as yours...

   
 

Offline ziggy stardust

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Re: 1966 175 HS Temperature
« Reply #5 on: April 04, 2015, 01:34:29 PM »
I had this same problem on my first GTR restoration, one cylinder ran hotter than the other. No need for a thermal image camera I could feel the difference on the exhaust manifolds, I also had leaking carbs by the way. When I swapped over the carbs from left to right the temperature problem followed proving it was a carb fault.

I was never able to stop the carbs leaking or managed to cure to temperature problem but did manage to get a NOS pair of carbs from RC and that solved both problems.

Z
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Offline Kansas

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Re: 1966 175 HS Temperature
« Reply #6 on: April 04, 2015, 03:08:46 PM »
These are all great tips and ideas.  I will get to work on it and I am sure I will be keeping you up to date on my progress through questions.  The photo posted before was an accident, haha.  Here are some daytime pics.  Thank you all.

Offline Brickstone50

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Re: 1966 175 HS Temperature
« Reply #7 on: April 06, 2015, 02:46:02 PM »
Just went through this with my 200.
Tough to troubleshoot as it had multiple things going on.
cleaned the carbs
make sure exhaust pipes are clear, dirt daubers get in there it makes that side rich
make sure the floats seal, i like to check with a glass bowl https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=851844348205850&set=a.114822575241368.9005.100001408790628&type=3&src=https%3A%2F%2Fscontent-atl.xx.fbcdn.net%2Fhphotos-xpa1%2Fv%2Ft1.0-9%2F10403090_851844348205850_2324141427854572638_n.jpg%3Foh%3Dbef246393da9fece4106ccca702df69a%26oe%3D55B64F4A&size=720%2C720
get new plugs, by the time I was done one new plug was fouled and had very weak spark
Along the way i filed the points
Went to local motorcycle shop and got generic needles which fit nicely(just a bit shorter then factory) in the factory seats(removed the little clip that goes to float, it would keep needle from seating) , they have the soft tip that seals  even on old seat.
smoke may be due to oil  buildup in the pipes, so don't expect instant results when the carbs and ignition  are straightened out. The oil in the pipes will burn off or you can clean them

after all this ran it  at 60mph for a few miles checked with infrared heat gun
at the plug one side was 200F other was 195F
on the exhaust flange 260F and 265F

plugs look a little lean, i may raise the floats a bit

Offline Kansas

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Re: 1966 175 HS Temperature
« Reply #8 on: April 06, 2015, 11:48:41 PM »
I was thinking the same thing about a clog in the pipe.  I've always called them mud daubers.  I am planning on cleaning out the pipes, especially the left side.  The left side tends to leak more at the seal and makes a popping noise. I was thumbing through the original owners manual and it states to remove the heads once in a while and clean out the carbon.  Tough to say if it's ever been done, now seems like as good a time as any.  Surprisingly, the carbs are not leaking, but I plan to check the lines on the oil injection system, so why not clean them out again while I'm in there.  I am also going to try to fine tune the carb adjustment.  I like Z's idea of swapping them to see if the heat, or lack of moves with the carb.  I have replaced the plugs and almost bought a spare set.  I will probably need them by the time I'm finished.  The oil injection system makes me nervous and I have yet to decide if I am going to trust it.

What do most people do with the injection system?  Trust it or premix to be sure?  Right now I am leaning towards premix.

I went junk yard shopping rather than start trouble shooting, but I plan on starting tomorrow. 

Thanks again to everyone for all the ideas and tips.  I'm used to figuring everything out on my own without asking anyone questions.  Hopefully I won't be taking things apart quite as many times with the suggestions of all of you who have worked out issues of your own, and are more familiar with the machine.  I am glad I joined the site.

Offline slawsonb

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Re: 1966 175 HS Temperature
« Reply #9 on: April 07, 2015, 12:57:30 AM »
I have found the oil injection system to be rock solid, but until you are sure it is working properly premix is a good idea. I always premix when starting a new motor or one that has not run in a while, just for the sake of insurance. And you can never have too many spark plugs when you are bringing one back to life. Sorting can go through them in a hurry. You're on the right track and you'll have it ready to go before you know it...hang in...
...bert

Offline Kansas

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Re: 1966 175 HS Temperature
« Reply #10 on: May 27, 2015, 09:44:33 PM »
Progress has been curbed by some back issues topped off with a broken finger, but I did fire her up tonight and picked my daughter up from softball practice.  It was awesome, only six blocks round trip, but enjoyed every second! Ha

Offline Mopar392

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Re: 1966 175 HS Temperature
« Reply #11 on: May 27, 2015, 10:08:45 PM »
 ;D Kansas, what was your daughters reaction? Have a 69 like yours, any and all Stone's are all just cool rides dude.
Thanks for real humor...Lee
« Last Edit: May 27, 2015, 10:12:32 PM by Mopar392 »

Offline slawsonb

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Re: 1966 175 HS Temperature
« Reply #12 on: May 27, 2015, 10:11:04 PM »
Glad to hear of the success. I can relate to the back issues, no fun.
...bert

Offline Kansas

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Re: 1966 175 HS Temperature
« Reply #13 on: June 02, 2015, 11:13:37 PM »
It was really windy and I turned my cap backwards.  That embarrassed her!  She said I looked like a dork.  Otherwise she thought it was pretty cool.

Offline Kansas

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Re: 1966 175 HS Temperature
« Reply #14 on: July 25, 2015, 11:02:09 PM »
Been busy with the kids this summer.  I removed the heads and cleaned out the carbon today.  Nice chrome in there!  The left side was a little wet with little carbon, the right side looked good but had some buildup.  I thought about putting a slightly hotter plug in the left side, but decided to clean the left carb.  With the carb back together I quickly tried to sync it to the right carb.  Needs some slight adjustment, and more testing, but the temps seem to be about the same.  I will check it with an infrared gun soon to see what the temps are.  That also improved the exceleration.  Doesn't bog down now.  I need to start ordering some parts, and finish cleaning off the grime.  I'll let you know what I find out!

A side note, we got the Honda Z50R running, and I can proudly say my youngest rode it like a champ!  I pulled out the ol' Suzuki and took her for a spin tonight as well.  Been a good weekend!

Take care and ride on!

Offline slawsonb

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Re: 1966 175 HS Temperature
« Reply #15 on: July 25, 2015, 11:34:52 PM »
Glad to hear of the progress (we all need as much as we can get). I bet you'll find the temps are in line after your recent work. Keep plugging.
I wish it would cool off enough to allow a little shop time, but 100 deg F everyday keeps the progress to a minimum.
...bert

Offline BRT-GTR

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Re: 1966 175 HS Temperature
« Reply #16 on: July 26, 2015, 07:53:55 AM »
       Sounds like you've cracked the overheating issue, likely it was running weak on the right side. Keep going, a great start if the engine is running nicely.
 
 Bert, could you send some of that heat over here, 57 degrees and raining  :D ;D :D. Did get a few days in the 90s a month ago, hope that wasn't our summer !!  ::)
          Brian the Brit
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