Author Topic: Racer Resurrection  (Read 62279 times)

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Offline bsracer

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Re: Racer Resurrection
« Reply #180 on: June 08, 2018, 11:42:53 AM »
Check the squish clearance. You don't want it too tight. I think the heads I have on now are at 8cc.


paul

Offline al_pritchard

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Re: Racer Resurrection
« Reply #181 on: June 11, 2018, 01:20:41 PM »
I dont think I'll have any clearance issues, if anything the "squish" area is non-existent. With no base gasket or shim, and no head gasket I get a 1mm squish at the edge of the piston. Raising to 1.9mm squish, 5mm out. This is probably +/- a little, it was difficult to accurately measure the edge of the solder.


No Shim, No Gasket
Base Shim: N/A
Cylinder Bore: 50mm
Engine Stroke: 45mm
Exhaust Port Height from TDC: 26mm
Exhaust Closes at: 90° BTDC
Cylinder Volume at BDC: 90.13cc
Cylinder Volume at TDC: 7.1cc

Squish:
At Cylinder Wall: 1mm
5mm From Cylinder Wall: 1.9mm

Uncorrected Compression Ratio: 13.45:1
Trapped Compression Ratio: 8.19:1


Small Shim, No Gasket
Base Shim: 0.61mm
Cylinder Bore: 50mm
Engine Stroke: 45mm
Exhaust Port Height from TDC: 26mm
Exhaust Closes at: 88° BTDC
Cylinder Volume at BDC: 90.13cc
Cylinder Volume at TDC: 7.5cc

Squish:
At Cylinder Wall: 1.61mm
5mm From Cylinder Wall: 2.51mm

Uncorrected Compression Ratio: 12.78:1
Trapped Compression Ratio: 7.81:1


Medium Shim, No Gasket
Base Shim: 0.80mm
Cylinder Bore: 50mm
Engine Stroke: 45mm
Exhaust Port Height from TDC: 26mm
Exhaust Closes at: 86° BTDC
Cylinder Volume at BDC: 90.13cc
Cylinder Volume at TDC: 7.8cc

Squish:
At Cylinder Wall: 1.8mm
5mm From Cylinder Wall: 2.7mm

Uncorrected Compression Ratio: 12.33:1
Trapped Compression Ratio: 7.54:1


Thick Shim, No Gasket
Base Shim:
Cylinder Bore:
Engine Stroke:
Exhaust Port Height from TDC:
Exhaust Closes at:
Cylinder Volume at BDC:
Cylinder Volume at TDC:

Squish:
At Cylinder Wall:
5mm From Cylinder Wall:

Uncorrected Compression Ratio:
Trapped Compression Ratio:


Al Pritchard
Highlands, NJ

BS175 Racer

Offline al_pritchard

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Re: Racer Resurrection
« Reply #182 on: June 25, 2018, 07:03:29 PM »
Started disassembly, and cleaning of the carbs. Thought I'd share some numbers:

SR Carb
Needle - 4J6
Needle Valve - 2.0
Pilot Jet - 30
Main Jet - 220

From the kit
Needle - ??? No idea, it's not stamped
Needle Valve - 2.0
Pilot Jet - 30
Main Jet - 130, 140, 150

Needle Jet - Wow am I not happy about this. It's has a bur inside

Overall not happy with the quality of the parts in this ket, and would only recommend if you needed some of the other bits.

Quick question, when striping down the carb. How do you safely remove the needle jet? I'v seen a couple of youtube videos that show it getting "lightly" hammered up - using a wood dowel against the seat. How much resistance should I expect? I'v given it a couple of taps, but nothing of any real force.
Al Pritchard
Highlands, NJ

BS175 Racer

Offline BRT-GTR

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Re: Racer Resurrection
« Reply #183 on: June 26, 2018, 09:39:10 AM »
       Al,
             I did push a couple of needle jets out of slightly corroded 350 carbs, 12 months ago, to see how easily they would come out and clean them.
        One moved with a couple of light taps, second required a little bit more welly.
       You will know this but make sure you first remove the thick brass washer under the main jet. I then put an old main jet back in and hit this, using a piece of hard wood, to move the needle jet, sure I used a piece of dowel to complete the push out.
      Seem to remember, they only needed driving for the first 10mm or so and then loosened up. They are a light push fit when replacing, main jet and washer was used to fully seat them.
      Difficult to advise on force require but feel you have enough hands on experience to know when to back off.                                                           Brian.
« Last Edit: June 26, 2018, 09:46:42 AM by BRT-GTR »
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Offline bsracer

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Re: Racer Resurrection
« Reply #184 on: June 28, 2018, 09:57:07 AM »
There is a pin in the carb body that locates the jet. The jet should have a slot. Sometimes there can be some crud making it difficult to remove. I think I used a small size nut driver and get them moving. Not ideal. You could make up a dowel out of delrin or something like that to tap on the jet so you don't damage the threads or jet.

paul

p.s. where did the kit come from?

Offline moonpup

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Re: Racer Resurrection
« Reply #185 on: June 28, 2018, 10:15:11 AM »
On some difficult ones I had, it helped to boil up some water and let them soak in there for a bit. I also sprayed some WD-40 down that slot/channel Paul mentioned.

Some tapped out with a wooden dowel, while others required the sacrificial main jet like Brian used.
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Offline OldSwartout

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Re: Racer Resurrection
« Reply #186 on: June 28, 2018, 02:09:24 PM »
I generally use a 1/4 ratchet extension. They're slightly rounded on the tip, just enough to prevent damaging the threads and nearly the same size as the hole in the carb.  The one disadvantage is they are large enough diameter to push the little brass locating pin partially out and you have to remember to push it back in later. 

I like the sacrificial main jet idea better.
Karl Swartout
Mooresville, IN
BS175 Roadracer
BS350 GTR

Offline BRT-GTR

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Re: Racer Resurrection
« Reply #187 on: June 28, 2018, 02:59:53 PM »
         Against expectations, the main jet didn't suffer any damage and is now back in my collection. It was a 160 I found in one of my spare carbs, likely a younger rider trying extract more power from his GTR back in the day.                                Brian.
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Offline al_pritchard

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Re: Racer Resurrection
« Reply #188 on: July 07, 2018, 04:16:38 PM »

Foiled again.

With the next week off, I was attempting to finish the engine build. And perhaps start the bike. But that does't look like it's happening.

Everything together, and lightly oiled. Everything spins smoothly. But.... I have a leak or two.

While pressurizing the left cylinder, I found a leak at the right crank seal. So I guess that means, I need a new crank seal. And I guess I need to swap out the crank for the NOS one. Hoping that seal is still good.

I send an email off to Richard, and I'll follow up monday with a call. But if anyone has any of the following, I'm interested.

#27
1451-8000
Crank Shaft Color
(This is precautionary, but it looks a little worn so if I can find one)

#32
09090-109
28 Oil Seal

Paul - The kit came from Diablo Cycles up in Canada.


Couple of photos to keep everyone engaged.



It looks like the rotary disk was already trimmed to the specification in the tuning guide




Translating degrees to the dial




And clean carbs. Reused the old jets - they looked very clean.


P.s. Managed to get the main jets out. Need to look closer at the parts diagram, I completely missed the washer - Thanks Brian.
Al Pritchard
Highlands, NJ

BS175 Racer

Offline bsracer

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Re: Racer Resurrection
« Reply #189 on: July 10, 2018, 09:10:01 AM »
Hi Al,

well I thought I wrote a response yesterday but it seems to be gone now?

paul

Offline al_pritchard

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Re: Racer Resurrection
« Reply #190 on: July 11, 2018, 08:15:47 AM »
I got the email notification you did. But I never saw the post.

On the plus side, a full set of Oil seals have been ordered. So the engine comes apart this week for a second rebuild. With my last crank. Let’s hope that seal is still good, otherwise.....
« Last Edit: July 11, 2018, 08:17:55 AM by al_pritchard »
Al Pritchard
Highlands, NJ

BS175 Racer

Offline al_pritchard

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Re: Racer Resurrection
« Reply #191 on: July 23, 2018, 11:36:13 AM »
All the new seals are in. Thanks Richard!

Went to pull the bearings off the crank to transfer onto the NOS crank. I can feel a little lateral movement in the bearing. So I'm going to pick up new ones before I assemble everything. Hopefully for the last time before starting. It looks like the outer bearings are pretty standard. So I should be able to source locally, unless anyone knows of a good distributer. Or a reason to order NOS bearings from Richard.

My last crank is slightly different than the other two. And I think that may lead to me needing to do additional work. The other two cranks have a grooved center bearing, the NOS crank has a centering hole, and an oiling hole but no groove. I asume that the oiling hole in the bearing needs to align with the hole in the upper case, and the centering hole helps achieve that.

I think I saw a reference to aligning by hand in another thread. Am I foolish for attempting that? Should a align by hand, and use a little green lock tight to prevent the bearing form spinning. Or am I on the hunt for a new case, or off to find a good machines?

NOS Crank on top


Upper Case
Al Pritchard
Highlands, NJ

BS175 Racer

Offline OldSwartout

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Re: Racer Resurrection
« Reply #192 on: July 24, 2018, 06:02:26 AM »
The NOS crank is the later design.  There is supposed to be a dowel in the lower crankcase half to locate the bearing and keep it from rotating. That maintains alignment of the bearing oiling hole with the feed hole from the upper case.  The earlier version relied on the oil/fuel mix traveling around the bearing outer groove to the oiling hole in the race.  I never heard an official reason for the change, but could guess that the bearing in some of the early version may have moved axially in operation or been misaligned toward the seal when assembled, resulting in cutting off the oil feed.  If you use the later crank, you should have the dowel in the lower crankcase half and won't need the half ring in the upper case, if you use the earlier, loctite the bearing in place.
Karl Swartout
Mooresville, IN
BS175 Roadracer
BS350 GTR

Offline dcr

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Re: Racer Resurrection
« Reply #193 on: August 01, 2018, 10:58:50 AM »
I have a similar situation. The original motor in my 175DT has the old style center bearing. I have been going back and forth on a resolution and need to decide on having a crank rebuilt with a "new" old style center bearing OR having the case drilled to accommodate the locating pin on the "new" style center bearing since I have a really good crank with that style center bearing.

I would imagine the new style center bearings are more plentiful so that may be the way for you to go? I have several of them but was only able to locate 1 of the old style.

Dan
1966 175 DT and 1968 350 GTR

Offline al_pritchard

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Re: Racer Resurrection
« Reply #194 on: August 01, 2018, 03:22:01 PM »
I'm in the same place Dan.

I have 3 cranks, two with the new bearing, and one with the old. I think I'l be sending the case out to have a pin added.

On a side note. Went looking on eBay for an alternative engine case, with a pin. Holy S&%#! They want a lot of money so some very dodgy looking parts.
Al Pritchard
Highlands, NJ

BS175 Racer

Offline dcr

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Re: Racer Resurrection
« Reply #195 on: August 02, 2018, 03:41:27 PM »
Al - I have a case I'd part with that has the locator pin. It's in really good shape as I recall, but I'd have to double check. I bought a motor off a guy a few years back but I don't really have a use for it.

Send me an email at droth at hmcontrol dot com if you are interested. Ill send you pictures and you can decide.

Dan
1966 175 DT and 1968 350 GTR

Offline al_pritchard

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Re: Racer Resurrection
« Reply #196 on: August 13, 2018, 11:10:45 AM »

Big thanks to Dan! My new to me case arrived without a scratch. Eventually I’ll have the old case machined for an index dowel. But for now this case should same me some time.

Everything looks identical between the two. Except for the timing idle gear shaft. The old case has a “plug” in the spot the new case has the timing idle gear shaft. Does anyone have any thought on how to remove the shaft? It looks like I might be able to press it out from the back. Alternatively, I could cut it off but that seems drastic.

Quite The Packing Job - Looks like it was customer made for the case


Upper Case Half - With idle gear shaft


New vs Old - The new case has the index dowel for the center bearing

Al Pritchard
Highlands, NJ

BS175 Racer

Offline OldSwartout

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Re: Racer Resurrection
« Reply #197 on: August 14, 2018, 08:31:10 AM »
One possibility to remove the shaft if you don't come up with something better: weld a nut on the end and use a slide hammer to pull it. I'd put the case up against something solid like vice jaws, both for inertia and to prevent possibly breaking the case.
Karl Swartout
Mooresville, IN
BS175 Roadracer
BS350 GTR

Offline dcr

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Re: Racer Resurrection
« Reply #198 on: August 14, 2018, 09:01:30 AM »
Al, just my opinion here, but I would cut the shaft off as close to the case as possible and then mill it off flush.

If you press it out and manage to avoid cracking the case, you will still have to plug the hole with something. Going the cut off route seems to me to be the least risky move.

Dan
1966 175 DT and 1968 350 GTR

Offline al_pritchard

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Re: Racer Resurrection
« Reply #199 on: August 14, 2018, 05:08:38 PM »
I think cutting it off, and “milling” it flush is going to be the easiest. I put quotes around milling, because I don have a mill. But I think I can get away with an end mill on the drill press, and plunge cut it. I have a good x z vice that should help. And I figure if I only plung cut, the drill press should be able to handle it.
Al Pritchard
Highlands, NJ

BS175 Racer

 


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