Kickstart tension

[alan86a]

Hi All
I’ve been wondering if anyone could help with the problem i have with a lack of recoil on the GTR kickstart.
The engine rebuild is nearly complete and having followed the reinstall in the service manual i find there is little return spring tension on the kick lever.
The spring seemed to be in good condition pre installation and i am now considering striping the crankcase halves again.
I now see that there is an article on this site giving the kickstart setup procedure when closing the cases but really don’t want to go down this road unless absolutely necessary.
Bottom line - should the lever have a good degree of tension enabling it to return every time to the upright position? i'm lucky if it returns to the horizontal.
The bike is not running yet does this make any difference?
Alan

[ziggy stardust]

Try this,  KICKER INSTALLATION: To get the kick start ratcheting correctly remove the snap
ring from the left side of shaft. Then install kick start lever temporally. Push the shaft
in as your kicking it down, push it back to the left before you let up on the lever. Kick
start idle gear should turn and kick lever should have good spring tension to it when
installed correctly.

Z

Courtesy of RIDERED (The Red Rider)  Lesson's learned.

[alan86a]

Yes thanks Ziggy that's the article i found 'after' i closed the cases so it looks like it's a pardon the pun case of opening the engine again.

[alan86a]

Ziggy or anybody else

Does the kicker installation procedure as mentioned previously infer that this operation can be done just by removing the sprocket cover then doing the business and not diving inside the cases?

Alan

[ziggy stardust]

I gave this some thought but can't be sure but if you were to try it then it's nothing lost, I'd go for it.

Disclaimer.... Z will not b held responsible if the original poster (Alan) makes a pig's ear of it.

Z

[alan86a]

Yes tried it tonight the quick way after consulting with Brian, there does seem to be a bit more spring there now although when unclipped the shaft didn't seem to push in much (i'd say about 4mm).
So i will leave it at that and see how we go.Problem is i don't know what sort of tension the lever should have.
Thanks again Z and thanks for the advice tonight Brian. Next problem to follow watch this space.
Alan

[BRT-GTR]

Hi Alan,
           I have had a better look at the kick start tensioning since we spoke. Good news, I think you are right in saying the manual doesn't mention tensioning the kstart before bolting up the crankcase halves. Have a look at the 'Assembling Engine' section in the Service Manual, Page 19 in my Rockford's version. Item 7 does describe tensioning the shaft before fitting the shaft stopper plate, which is done with just the right side crankcase cover removed............ so bit of a strip down required but you should be able to sort it without splitting the cases again............ the number of times I've looked at that section and not fully taken in what it says, didn't think of it the other night  !!!!!!!!!!!!!!
    Brian.

[BRT-GTR]

Hi Again Alan,
                   From what you've just told me on the phone and Ridered's comment re spring tension, I suspect your kstart is not fully tensioned IE, should be no free movement on the lever. If you do decide to remove the right cover as post above, also check that the kstart ratchet is working properly, the pawl spring does break or jam sometimes. Just spin the kstart gear wheel, you should hear and feel the ratchet working, (might have to remove the idler gear from the Kstart gear train or pull the clutch driven gear out of mesh). If you just placed the kickstart shaft into the cases without checking that the starter pawl was latched on the stopper plate, then I suspect this will be the problem. The manual doesn't mention this because it deals with the tensioning later and it depends on whether the stopper plate has been removed
  Riderreds solution may only work with the sidecase  removed. The rev counter worm drive gear , which is on the end of the kick ratchet, will stop the kshaft being pushed in, as you found.
         Brian.

[alan86a]

Brian Firstly i'm sure the pawl and spring was working as it should when i gave the ratchet the once over before assembly, i did take close attention to this as i replaced the kick shaft with a new one and had to take all ancillaries off the old one and replace in same position.
As we discussed this morning we think its a good idea to ask here if there is anyone who can advise if there should be what i can only describe as a dead area of tension for about the first 20 degrees of the kicker movement - is this normal or could this be a contributory factor to the problem, which i take this opportunity to say again is a lack of return spring tension.
Alan 
Your Top of the Tower Brian

[slawsonb]

Maybe(although not particularily likely) the wraps of the spring you have installed have stretched or tightened (or otherwise deformed) and is as a result in the right position, but not applying the proper load??? Yes, probably reaching...
...bert

[alan86a]

Hi Bert
I take in all your comments and can only say that the old spring seemed to give a good degree of tension prior to installation and looked in reasonable nick. Obviously with hindsight it would have been cost wise a drop in the ocean to replace with NOS.
But to replace now is a total strip down - there is enough tension though now to get a decent kick.

[slawsonb]

Yeah, I would save the tear down and spring replacement a last resort. Just considering the possibilities.
...bert

[BRT-GTR]

Alan,
       Just another thought, when the kickstart returns to it's rest position does it have a positive stop. If so the stopper plate will be doing it's job of retracting the ratchet pawl.
  Brian.

[alan86a]

Brian
Yep the kicker does have a definite stop so, as you say, there can't be much wrong and i am getting a reasonable amount of tension.
So i think Ridereds procedure courtesy of Z is working for me.
I mean't to ask when we last spoke how the search for another crank was going?