My Clutch

[Colin]

Hi Guys,
I just went to fit a new clutch cable not an hour ago and discovered the clutch arm lifts all the way up without activating the clutch itself,  the motor has just been completely rebuilt so what I'd like to know is have I missed something,  I tried screwing the push rod adjuster all the way in and it still is not enough to put pressure on the plates, could somebody tell me the length of that adjuster, doesn't have to be an exact size, 60mm, 80mm whatever, I'm sure if I have the wrong one it's way too short but I fear that is not the problem.
Oh and I fitted a new clutch too and checked the set up against the old clutch plates that the bike came with and that side of things seems ok.
Colin.

[bsforever]

Colin, there is one thing that can be easily missed if it is not put in. You do have the ball bearing fitted in the push rod assembly?  If you do, it might be that you may need to put 2 of them in ( parts manual ---page 17 , part# 0611-0104 --- piece number 25 in the list ) Hope this works for you. bsforever

[OldSwartout]

There is only 1 ball (item #25), but there is a short dowel in the system that is also easy to leave out (item #24).  Either will give the symptoms you describe.

[OldSwartout]

I recently an interesting thing about Kawasaki triples that may apply to Bridgestones (and probably other brands) that relates to the clutch pushrod.  In the Deal's Gap area, there is an uphill 5 mile ride to a lookout point. The cool thing to do is ride down, dead engine the entire 5 miles, just listening to the wind.  If you leave the transmission in gear and just pull the clutch in, the pushrod can friction weld itself to the release push rod (like item #20 on the BS), the piece inside the clutch with the large head. The flash around the weld will then prevent the pushrod from moving in the bore of the transmission shaft and won't allow the clutch to engage.

Lesson: don't coast long distances with the transmission in gear but the clutch disengaged.  That might be tempting in any mountainous areas. Two-stroke riders tend to be cautious about long downhill  runs with the throttle closed and are tempted to pull the clutch in to avoid spinning the engine for an extended period without any fuel.

[william anderson]

hi carl , not only can you weld the push rod an button  together , on the yamaha an bmw  motorcycles if you coast with engine off you can actually seize the transmission as these bikes have oil pressure feed transmissions , this may apply to others as well , thanks  william anderson , 

[slawsonb]

Conclusion: Coasting Bad, unless well understood...
 
...bert

[Colin]

Hi guys,
Yeah the short piece is so that the clutch pushrod doesn't weld itself in, just as mentioned and the ball needs to sit between them, unfortunately for me all the bits are there, however It was reassembled the same way the bike came to me and since that part of the motor had been stripped by a previous owner maybe all is not as it should be,  now I'm looking at a partial motor strip ffs it never ends  
However I did have a slight issue with the clutch I never mentioned earlier and that is I can not tighten up the clutch centre nut too tight or it just jams the clutch shut, it is tight just now, sort of.
Regards Colin.

[bsforever]

Just one more possibility that could be the problem, is the actuator set in correctly? If it is not set in correctly, the 'arm' of the actuator would not have enough movement to actually work to push on the push rod. Mine is set so it is horizontally-- perhaps your might be set in a higher position which would not allow enough movement to push the rod? Other possiblities could be a wrong clutch cable, actuator tottaly not working for one reason or another,etc.  Good luck hope we can figure something out for you......keep us posted. bsforever

[OldSwartout]

However I did have a slight issue with the clutch I never mentioned earlier and that is I can not tighten up the clutch centre nut too tight or it just jams the clutch shut, it is tight just now, sort of.
Regards Colin.

I think you may be missing 09048-113, 22 thrust washer (p. 17 in parts manual).

[Colin]

Hi Guys,
The lever does nothing , it screws the rod in when I lift it up but then nothing happens on the clutch side,  the cable is the correct cable so I'm thinking the problem must be either parts missing or wrong parts, when I took the clutch to bits during the engine strip one of the plates was broken into quite a few pieces and now the fact that I can't tighten the clutch centre nut up as tight as I'd like too and the actuator is doing nothing means a strip for a full inspection, I'm not happy but these things happen.
Unfortunately for me I'm back at work Friday for a gut busting 2 weeks and will not see the bike until I return but I will be on it like flies on em what's that stuff again um, oh yeah soup   when I get back.
Regards Colin.

[slawsonb]

Colin, maybe the rod (2274-9000) is not the right length. If someone cobbled this poor bike together (before you got it...) they could have substituted.
Worth a check. I'll measure one later today...
...bert

[bsforever]

I have a standard measure for that rod (2274-9000 ) i am not all that familiar with metric, but it is 9 3/8" on standard. I fortunatley for your needs have my left cover off due to working on the dynamo, so wasn't a hassle for me att all to get the measurement  bsforever

[slawsonb]

Converts to 238.125mm...
..bert

[Colin]

Thanks guys I will check that measurement when I get home, hopefully it's just something stupid I have done rebuilding it.
Regards Colin.

[coxy]

is the push rod bent

[Colin]

hi coxy,
alas it was straight, been sitting here at my work trying to figure out whats wrong and so far can't think of anything, it could not be something stupid like the clutch activation lever needs to turn a complete revolution anti- clockwise before i hook the cable up could it
now that would be a result and it would make me extremely happy
still thinking it gonna be something daft I have done though
Colin

[disc_valve]

Hi, Colin,

That last comment of yours set me thinking. The clutch lifter assembly is fixed to the left hand engine case by two screws. Is it possible that someone has fitted this assembly upside down? That would mean that the clutch activation lever was effectively 180 degrees out.

I'm not even sure if the lifter assembly will fit "the wrong way up" without fouling the case, but it seems you've tried most everything else!

Graham

[BRT-GTR]

Hi Colin,
           It's Brian the Brit, how are you, you seem to be coming along well with your restoration and I would hope to make a serious start on mine in the near future.
To save you stressing out for the next two weeks and maybe compromising our gas or oil supply , I have had a look at an engine that I have in pieces. The clutch centre should tighten up against a shoulder on the gearbox input shaft with a very small clearance at the back between it and the clutch outer basket.  I think Karl above has probably put his finger on the problem, the shaped thrust washer behind the clutch centre,  item 9, P16 & 17 could be missing. There is a good cross sectional drawing of the clutch assembly on page 27 of the Workshop Manual which could help you find out what is wrong. Check that the clutch outer basket and driven gear assembly is sitting back from the shoulder on the input shaft.  Both the clutch outer basket and inner do need to be fully tightened, they have a habit of coming loose even with the locking washers, as witnessed by all the scoring on my spare cases, also use a dab of Loctite on the threads. I have read that the clutch can snatch if it comes loose.
 While you've got the clutch centre off, take the clutch adjuster screw out and using a suitable piece of wire push all the push rod parts out to see if there's any thing missing. I can't be sure but the ball may drop into the case near front sprocket. I don't have a spare  engine case which houses the clutch actuator so can't check that for you but on my built up engine the actuator arm is just about horizontal when it contacts the clutch push rod as stated in a post above. The inner actuator spiral projects about 1mm out from the outer spiral with the arm horizontal (looking behind the actuator lock nut). If yours is somewhere near then the actuator is probably the right way round, re Graham's reply above.
   You probably know this but starting at the actuator end you should have the ball which I think you should be able to get into the back of the actuator by sticking it to a screwdriver with a blob of grease, after  removing the front sprocket cover. Then from the clutch side push in the long push rod (236x6mm) and then the short push rod (10x6mm) then the clutch mushroom.
 The actuator seems to produce about 3-4mm end movement when the arm is lifted approx 12mm, simulating operation of the clutch lever so there isn't much movement to play with.  Hopefully that will solve the problem without having to remove any of the sealed engine cases or drain off the oil. Let us know how you go on.
  Good luck Brian the Brit.

[Colin]

Hi Brian,
Nice to see you on here again, I have not noticed any forum stuff off you for some time.
I thank you for that in depth reply and coupled with checking I do have the actuator the
correct way I think I should be able to get to the bottom of the problem, I'm home on
Friday but marital duties, cutting the lawn, weeding , hanging new wallpaper in the sitting room
and a few other mundane tasks will keep me away from the bike for a few days, but I will have it fixed or the problem Identified within a week of getting back so I will post it on here, damn I have a funny feeling I'm going to be typing this one with my head hung in shame 
Colin.

[Colin]

Hi guys,
A quick update here, looks like I forgot to put the little ball bearing in there 
Still need to pull the clutch down though and make sure there's a thrust washer in there too, which could be the cause of over tightening the nut if it were not there.
isn't it a pain when you get something in pieces and have to work out how it goes together.
Colin.