Author Topic: Restoring 1969 200 MK II HS  (Read 5183 times)

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Offline rdwilroy

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Restoring 1969 200 MK II HS
« on: October 21, 2016, 07:18:55 PM »
The pistons were not stuck to badly and I was able to free them up. I drained and cleaned the transmission by rinsing with some kerosene, shifted it through all the gears while pushing it around. I Cleaned up the points, reset timing and got good spark on the plugs. I removed the carbs, cleaned internals and got them looking good. Then  I removed the heads and cylinders and cleaned them up. One piston has Stuck rings.

So I'm going to get the cylinders re-chromed and got a cost from US Chrome that seems high at $230/cylinder. Is that high? Any recommendations on who to use?

The OD has 2248 miles. Everything seems free in the transmission and crank. Should I plan to split the case anyway to make sure it's ok?

I'd sure appreciate any advice and guidance.

Offline OldSwartout

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Re: Restoring 1969 200 MK II HS
« Reply #1 on: October 22, 2016, 09:13:09 AM »
Try Millenium Technologies for Nickel Silicon Carbide (similar to Nikasil) on the cylinder bores. It's better than chrome and, the last I heard, was closer to $200/bore.  Someone with recent experience should chime in here.  Cylinders requiring weld repair will be more.
Karl Swartout
Mooresville, IN
BS175 Roadracer
BS350 GTR

Offline Jeff Bar

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Re: Restoring 1969 200 MK II HS
« Reply #2 on: October 22, 2016, 09:55:52 AM »
Why not just buy new cylinders?  Jeff bar

Offline rdwilroy

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Re: Restoring 1969 200 MK II HS
« Reply #3 on: October 22, 2016, 10:51:58 AM »
The cylinder's aren't going to need any weld repair so I figured refinishing the bore wold be cheaper? Can you get new cylinders for less? I'm waiting on a cost from Millennium now.

What do you guys think about splitting the case. It seems to shift through all the gears ok, the 4 to 5 speed lever works, I pushed it around in gear and engaged the clutch and that seemed ok. But it has been sitting in a barn for 20 years or more.

Offline OldSwartout

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Re: Restoring 1969 200 MK II HS
« Reply #4 on: October 22, 2016, 12:17:45 PM »
There are no new cylinders, except for a random one showing up on ebay occasionally. I don't think I've ever seen a good usable used one on ebay. They're always junk.
 
If the rod bearings look OK as far as you can see and feel with the bottom end together, I'd say leave it alone. There can be center seal problems requiring a teardown, but unlikely. However, if there is any sign of crank bearing problems (rust, roughness, etc.), you don't want to risk a bad bearing destroying good cylinders and pistons when it comes apart.
Karl Swartout
Mooresville, IN
BS175 Roadracer
BS350 GTR

Offline Jeff Bar

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Re: Restoring 1969 200 MK II HS
« Reply #5 on: October 22, 2016, 01:02:14 PM »
richard has new cylinders  Jeff bar.

Offline OldSwartout

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Re: Restoring 1969 200 MK II HS
« Reply #6 on: October 22, 2016, 03:31:27 PM »
richard has new cylinders  Jeff bar.
Oh, sorry, just realized this was a 200 instead of a 175.
Karl Swartout
Mooresville, IN
BS175 Roadracer
BS350 GTR

Offline slawsonb

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Re: Restoring 1969 200 MK II HS
« Reply #7 on: October 22, 2016, 07:10:21 PM »
My latest experience with Millennium was very good. Their base price to clean, strip, hone and plate is about $250 each. Any machining, welding, or other services are extra. They will provide an estimate from pics (and stand by it). The last set I had done were in VERY bad condition ($350 each, but that included mods to improve squish and some pretty major welding to restore the exhaust ports) and they came out perfect. As Karl mentioned, the Nicasil will hold up better than the chrome anyway...
...bert

Offline dcr

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Re: Restoring 1969 200 MK II HS
« Reply #8 on: October 22, 2016, 07:28:25 PM »
I used Powerseal USA in Phoenixville PA for my 175. Cost me $200 per cylinder. I live near them so no shipping charges. Awesome results and will use them again.
1966 175 DT and 1968 350 GTR

Offline rdwilroy

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Re: Restoring 1969 200 MK II HS
« Reply #9 on: October 23, 2016, 08:10:45 PM »
Removed engine from frame today. Degreased it and checked the rod bearings. Far as I can tell they look good. Everything turns smooth so I thinking I probably want split the case. I think I'm just take the clutch cover off and see how that looks.

Emailed Richard about those cylinders. Need new pistons, rings and rist pin bearings too. So next up will be stripping the frame down and clean all that up.

Any recommendations on chroming items like finders?

Offline rdwilroy

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Re: Restoring 1969 200 MK II HS
« Reply #10 on: October 23, 2016, 08:22:05 PM »
Pic

Offline rdwilroy

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Re: Restoring 1969 200 MK II HS
« Reply #11 on: October 25, 2016, 08:26:14 PM »
Other cylinder and heads cleaned up nicely.

Offline rdwilroy

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Re: Restoring 1969 200 MK II HS
« Reply #12 on: October 25, 2016, 08:36:47 PM »
Spark plug hole is stripped on one head. I think I've got a helicoil.

Offline rdwilroy

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Re: Restoring 1969 200 MK II HS
« Reply #13 on: December 31, 2016, 11:53:02 AM »
I bought new pistons from Richard only to find out they were to big. Strange that the frame S/N 23A03722 indicates it was a 200. Also the model # on the tag says BS MK/II SS. The vehicle ID on steering neck says MIISS TA1 034620 which if I understand it correctly means it is a 200 made with some left over 175 inventory parts. The cylinder has 177 cc in the casting. I order 200 piston and rings based on the bike being sold to me as a 200 and based on the article I read on how to identify BS models based on ID and s/n's. I'm guessing someone must have swapped the original engine with a175? I didn't even notice the cylinder casting 177 until I found the new pistons were to large.

I have another bike that indicates it is a 200 but have not checked the cylinders yet. I was basically using it as a parts bike since the bike I'm restoring is in slightly better shape. I'm wondering if I should rebuild that engine and put it into the frame that I am currently restoring or just get the correct pistons and stay with the 175 engine that came with the bike.  Any recommendations?


Offline OldSwartout

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Re: Restoring 1969 200 MK II HS
« Reply #14 on: December 31, 2016, 01:22:45 PM »
I think it depends on what kind of shape the cylinders and pistons of  the other bike are.  If you have to buy new cylinders or get them refinished, the expense will be pretty high.  From what I've heard the performance difference between the 175 and 200 isn't enough to make it worth a lot of expense, although I've never spent any time riding a 200.  You'll have to check with Richard on 175 piston availability, though, if you're going to keep it with the 175 engine.

You can quickly tell if a cylinder is a 175 or 200 from 10 feet away.  The 200 cylinders have two round flat spots on the fourth fin (die ejection pin pads), the 175's don't.  You can see them in photos of a 200.
Karl Swartout
Mooresville, IN
BS175 Roadracer
BS350 GTR

Offline bsracer

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Re: Restoring 1969 200 MK II HS
« Reply #15 on: December 31, 2016, 10:33:18 PM »
It looks like to me that maybe someone put 175 cylinders on 200 cases? Wouldn't be the first time I've seen it. The pic of your cases above is clearly a 200. The cylinder that you cleaned up is a 175. You can tell by the size of the transfer ports. You could just put 200 cylinders and heads on your bottom end. You may be able to use the 200 pistons that you bought then.

paul
« Last Edit: December 31, 2016, 10:37:03 PM by bsracer »

Offline rdwilroy

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Re: Restoring 1969 200 MK II HS
« Reply #16 on: January 01, 2017, 08:26:01 AM »
I didn't know you could put the 175 cylinders on a 200 so I didn't think about that. I'm going to check my other 200 engine and see how usable those cylinders are. Thanks!

Offline slawsonb

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Re: Restoring 1969 200 MK II HS
« Reply #17 on: January 01, 2017, 10:23:29 AM »
You might be able to confirm that the bottom end on your resto bike is indeed a 200 from the engine number. If you've already done this, just another thought.
...bert

Offline rdwilroy

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Re: Restoring 1969 200 MK II HS
« Reply #18 on: January 01, 2017, 06:55:01 PM »
I was able to unstick the cylinders from my parts bike. They are definitely 200cc. I cleaned them up a bit and tried the new pistons. They wouldn't go in very far without getting stuck. Is it OK to hone these chrome plated cylinders out and try again? You can see from the picture one of them has some damage at the base and exhaust outlet. Looks like someone tried to beat them off or something before. The other cylinder has a little of that as well.

So I slipped the cylinders onto my other bottom end and they fit. I think I read somewhere that 200 cylinders want go on a 175 bottom end  but not sure about that. The number on the transmission case on my restoration bike is E817. What does that mean? Doesn't seem to follow the engine numbers for a 200 or 175 does it?.

Offline rdwilroy

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Re: Restoring 1969 200 MK II HS
« Reply #19 on: January 01, 2017, 07:06:30 PM »
Pic of engine case number.

 


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