Author Topic: Looking For 1321-5000 (EA1-13151) Crank Pin  (Read 2007 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline stingray68

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Full Bridgestone Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 55
Looking For 1321-5000 (EA1-13151) Crank Pin
« on: October 11, 2016, 11:52:01 AM »
Hello Everyone!,

   I am having my 1965 BS Trail 90 crank serviced at Millennium Tech in Wisconsin.  They called me a said that I need to replace the connecting rod and crank pin.  Richard has the connecting rod, but no pin.  I have also tried CPC in Janesville WI and no luck there either.  Does anyone have one that I could buy or have another source that I might could contact.  Almost looks like something I could get made easy enough, but no clue on the tolerance of the pin.  Thank you all in advance....Mike

Offline mqtsteve

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Full Bridgestone Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 248
  • (2) BS90 Sport , BS90 Trail, BS90 Mountain
Steve S.
4/1966 BS90 Sport(o.i.), 5/1966 BS90 Sport(o.i.),
1965 BS90 Trail, 1965 BS90 Mountain

Offline Jeff Bar

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Expert Registered Bridgestone Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 400
Re: Looking For 1321-5000 (EA1-13151) Crank Pin
« Reply #2 on: October 11, 2016, 05:21:52 PM »
That crank pin looks like rusty junk  Jeff bar

Online moonpup

  • Laidback Purist
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Master Registered Bridgestone Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1925
Re: Looking For 1321-5000 (EA1-13151) Crank Pin
« Reply #3 on: October 12, 2016, 09:12:33 AM »
That pin is probably in a whole lot better condition than the one it's replacing. The minor surface rust that you see can be easily removed with evaporust and whatever microscopic pitting that may remain shouldn't weaken the part in any way and would actually trap & hold more oil on it, which I would think would be a plus.

I'm no expert on this, so if anyone feels differently.... please give us your view.

Confucius say... "Better to have Bridgestone than Kidneystone"

Offline BRT-GTR

  • Brian
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Master Registered Bridgestone Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 622
Re: Looking For 1321-5000 (EA1-13151) Crank Pin
« Reply #4 on: October 12, 2016, 03:09:37 PM »
             I would be extremely loathe to buy/use that crankpin. Although the obvious corrosion wouldn't significantly weaken the item, a bearing assembly relies on the parts being as smooth as possible to ensure a long life. It might work for 10,20,50 miles who knows but it would rapidly fail in use.
     With the expense and work involved in rebuilding the crank and reassembling the engine, it is just not worth the risk.
        Brian.
Growing old is compulsory, Growing up is optional.

Offline Jeff McBrayer

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Full Bridgestone Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 98
Re: Looking For 1321-5000 (EA1-13151) Crank Pin
« Reply #5 on: October 12, 2016, 03:25:45 PM »
You never see master engine builders cranks that are rusty, much less saying its better.

I guess that is why Mercedes AMG   builds their hand made engines,  in those dirty wet buildings   Ha ha.  Just kidding.

Jeff McBrayer

Great BS site

Offline slawsonb

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Master Registered Bridgestone Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1351
Re: Looking For 1321-5000 (EA1-13151) Crank Pin
« Reply #6 on: October 12, 2016, 03:34:40 PM »
Brian, if the pin is derusted and the OD smoothed back to its original diameter (polished) I would expect much longer life than you have forecast. I have personally used wrist pins with similar pitting with good results (back in the day when Rockford was defunct and no parts source was available). The key is to get all the rust and get the pin smooth.
...bert
« Last Edit: October 12, 2016, 03:37:23 PM by slawsonb »

Online moonpup

  • Laidback Purist
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Master Registered Bridgestone Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1925
Re: Looking For 1321-5000 (EA1-13151) Crank Pin
« Reply #7 on: October 12, 2016, 03:47:55 PM »
Gotta remember folks, my reply was based on the fact that the 2 main sources for these no longer have this part and while this one isn't perfect, it's still better than nothing.  8)
Confucius say... "Better to have Bridgestone than Kidneystone"

Online dcr

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Expert Registered Bridgestone Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 416
Re: Looking For 1321-5000 (EA1-13151) Crank Pin
« Reply #8 on: October 12, 2016, 04:06:39 PM »
Good point Mike - I have purchased a number of "less than desirable condition" parts that replaced the part I didn't have at all or was beyond use. Sometimes you gotta do what you gotta do.

It's possible to use something that's not perfect in this type of situation if your not racing the bike, using as a daily rider or looking for sustained max RPM's. You will have to weigh the risks. It's not ideal to use any used parts when doing engine rebuilds, but when a new one isn't available...... you just make due.

You could probably have one made at a machine shop if you had a donor to give them for specs -I have no clue what the cost would be.

Or you could continue to look on ebay to see if a usable looking crank comes up. I think the 90 and 100 use the same part number.

Im curious to hear from guys Like Mike Anderson on this topic. He restores a lot of bikes so he must have an opinion on something like this.
« Last Edit: October 12, 2016, 04:27:33 PM by dcr »
1966 175 DT and 1968 350 GTR

Offline bsracer

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Expert Registered Bridgestone Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 287
Re: Looking For 1321-5000 (EA1-13151) Crank Pin
« Reply #9 on: October 13, 2016, 02:14:58 AM »
Getting a crank pin made is not as easy as you would think. If the orig replacement isn't readily available you may want to look for and alternative from another application. I've been kicking around getting some custom center crank pins made for my 175 racer and just picking the material is a chore in everyone having their own opinion on what material would work best. Measure the old pin dimensions and look for something close that's available for another bike and modify.

paul

Offline BRT-GTR

  • Brian
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Master Registered Bridgestone Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 622
Re: Looking For 1321-5000 (EA1-13151) Crank Pin
« Reply #10 on: October 13, 2016, 07:21:54 AM »
           I accept that sometimes there is no option than to use parts that are not in the best of condition.

        But, the crank pin bearing is one of the (if not the) hardest working, highest loaded, fastest spinning components in the engine. This is not the time or place to make compromises on parts quality.
        A wrist pin on the other hand is less highly loaded and does not spin. Cleaned up and with any pitting placed at 90 degs to the thrust line, a similar part should be fine.
        Brian.  Well at least we've livened up the forum  ;D ::)
Growing old is compulsory, Growing up is optional.

Online dcr

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Expert Registered Bridgestone Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 416
Re: Looking For 1321-5000 (EA1-13151) Crank Pin
« Reply #11 on: October 13, 2016, 09:39:04 AM »
Measure the old pin dimensions and look for something close that's available for another bike and modify.

paul

Paul - that's a really good suggestion. Instead of starting from scratch, maybe find a new crank pin that is slightly larger than what is needed for the 90 and have it turned down to meet the necessary spec's. You guys that race seem to always come up with good ideas and ways of getting things done - necessity is the mother of invention.

Is this something that is expensive to do? I have no clue what a machinist would charge to do something like that.
1966 175 DT and 1968 350 GTR

Offline bsracer

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Expert Registered Bridgestone Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 287
Re: Looking For 1321-5000 (EA1-13151) Crank Pin
« Reply #12 on: October 13, 2016, 10:09:45 AM »
Sometimes using an existing part modified to get the end result is far cheaper then starting from scratch. There are a lot of things like pistons and connecting rods that can be substituted as well as the big end pin. The BS 175/200 uses a 19mm big end pin which is common with some Suzuki model bikes. The best scenario would be to find a pin the same size, which can happen since the connecting rod manufactures supply multiply brands. Shortening a pin is probably easier than trying to have the OD ground smaller.

paul


Offline slawsonb

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Master Registered Bridgestone Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1351
Re: Looking For 1321-5000 (EA1-13151) Crank Pin
« Reply #13 on: October 13, 2016, 12:15:12 PM »
The silence has abated...;-)
...bert

Online OldSwartout

  • Global Moderator
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • *******
  • Posts: 964
Re: Looking For 1321-5000 (EA1-13151) Crank Pin
« Reply #14 on: October 14, 2016, 09:54:39 AM »
I feel that the rusty pin could be used after derusting.  My opinion is that it would run 20,000 miles or more.  I was the engineer on a couple series of heavy duty transmissions years ago. These transmissions had planetary gearing that had spindles in the 1" + diameter range with roller bearings. A pitted spindle, not rust pits, but true metal fatigue pits over 10 -15% of its surface, still had 30% or more of its life left. We also used to run lab test on gears and measure tooth pitting as part of the life measurement. The same thing applied. Once fatigue pitting started at the pitchline, the gear still had half of it's life left before failure.

The primary failure of a connecting rod bearing area is always the bearing cage. Pins and connecting rod ID's can develop wear grooves, reducing the support of the cage against the ID of the rod bore. Eventually this causes the cage bar loading to crack the cage at the corners of the slots.  Those eventually turn into breaks and then the pieces start to come out - the end.  Pits in the surfaces of the parts will have little effect.
« Last Edit: October 14, 2016, 09:56:36 AM by OldSwartout »
Karl Swartout
Mooresville, IN
BS175 Roadracer
BS350 GTR

Online moonpup

  • Laidback Purist
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Master Registered Bridgestone Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1925
Re: Looking For 1321-5000 (EA1-13151) Crank Pin
« Reply #15 on: October 14, 2016, 11:00:42 AM »
Ok stingray68, the ball is now in your court.... what say you?  ;D
Confucius say... "Better to have Bridgestone than Kidneystone"

Offline BRT-GTR

  • Brian
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Master Registered Bridgestone Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 622
Re: Looking For 1321-5000 (EA1-13151) Crank Pin
« Reply #16 on: October 17, 2016, 03:55:59 PM »
            I'm always amazed and pleased  :D by the level of knowledge and experience available on our site. I bow to Karl's superior knowledge but I still wouldn't buy that crankpin  :D ;D :D.
      Another thought. if the 90 crankpins are unavailable has anyone tried one of the companies who can metal spray the worn surface and regrind back to original size. I did see an add recently but can't rmember where and it would have been in the UK.
                 Brian.
Growing old is compulsory, Growing up is optional.

 


Gallery


Views:34
Comments (2)
By: OldSwartout

Views:47
Comments (2)
By: AlanJohn

Views:32
Comments (0)
By: AlanJohn

Views:35
Comments (0)
By: AlanJohn

Classifieds

unobtanium for sale
Price: $0.00
Date: 11/20/2017 12:51 am
Time Left: 87d 15h 14m
Steering Damper rod needed for GTR 350
Date: 11/03/2017 10:07 am
Time Left: 70d 23h 30m
Bridgestone Sport 100

Price: $175.00
Date: 10/31/2017 09:31 am
Time Left: 67d 22h 55m
1970 Bridgestone DT 175
Price: $1200.00
Date: 10/28/2017 06:08 pm
Time Left: 65d 7h 32m

Recent Downloads added

How to build a 149 mph 350GTR....
Rating: (None)
Filesize: 7154.56KB
Date: April 18, 2017, 08:25:38 AM
Bridgestone 100 Sport Brochure
Rating: *****
Filesize: 937.72KB
Date: July 08, 2015, 12:58:53 PM
BS 100 Sport Australian Brochure
Rating: *****
Filesize: 937.53KB
Date: June 29, 2015, 06:40:40 PM
Bridgestone 350 GTO - Moto L├ęgende May 2003
Rating: *****
Filesize: 9429.41KB
Date: April 22, 2015, 04:18:43 PM

Powered by EzPortal