Author Topic: Racer Resurrection  (Read 67790 times)

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Offline al_pritchard

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Re: Racer Resurrection
« Reply #140 on: January 01, 2018, 12:11:12 PM »
Thanks Karl. It was the difficult shifting that had me worried - as it's very smooth with the cases split. I'll seal it up again and double check.

On another note - it's not all bad that I had this pause moment. In re-checking everything I find that I am in possession of a pre November 1965 shift drum (pre serial no 16W02913). This gives me a shift pattern of 1N234N5. The post November shift drums give a more favorable - for racing - N12345.

Does anyone know if it's a direct swap between the old and "new" drums? And does anyone have one for sale?
Al Pritchard
Highlands, NJ

BS175 Racer

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Re: Racer Resurrection
« Reply #141 on: January 02, 2018, 03:07:35 AM »
Yamaha bond or something similar is the only thing to seal between the case halves. Don't use RTV.  Your crank set up looks like there is no locating dowel in the cases. Is there a circlip retainer against the seal as well? Shift fork B (#12) in the parts diagram is different from the ones in a SR175. Unless you are going to lock out the rotary shift somehow, that little spring and plunger is omitted and the shift fork for a racer just takes the same pin and roller as the other shift forks. When you assemble the bottom end you have to install the clutch bearing retainer before you tighten down on the cases (the trans can move over and be out of position if the cases are tightened first). You also have to make sure the crank is not binding on the cases. Put it in the top half and spin it then put it in the bottom half and spin it. Then put it in the cases and with just a few case bolts just snug them up a bit and keep checking how the crank turns over.

I have never put a motor together that doesn't have the locating dowel and circlip for the crank. Maybe the crank is a bit out of position. It doesn't take much. When a crank is not pressed back to all the way the webs can rub on the cases.

In looking back at your post, the early shift drums that have the different pattern also have a few different gears on the cluster. The drums can not just be swapped. The early drum should have what looks like two neutral indents. The later ones only one. I probably have a good stock setup. I also have an under cut set that would be preferable and some refurbished shift forks (including the SR style #12 fork). I'll take a look tomorrow.

paul

Offline al_pritchard

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Re: Racer Resurrection
« Reply #142 on: January 02, 2018, 07:47:25 PM »


Yep, no locator pin. But there is a circlip retainer that holds against the seal. I guess they made a number of updates towards the end of '65.

Thanks for the tip with the clutch bearing retainer may answer why I was feeling a little resistance.

I have the rotary shift fixed in place with a simple bracket. I must confess this was put on by the previous owner, so I cant take credit for the welds. But I do wonder if this transmission is what lead to the spun crank? Ful chat down the straight at 10k plus RPMs, and shifting from 4th to neutral may have allowed him to over rev slightly. ¯\_(?)_/¯

Rotary Shift Lockout


Shift Drum with Spring & Plunger


I would be verry interested in ether of those transmission options. Don't think the current configuration is going to cut it.
Al Pritchard
Highlands, NJ

BS175 Racer

Offline al_pritchard

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Re: Racer Resurrection
« Reply #143 on: January 08, 2018, 08:48:52 AM »
With the final assembly of the engin on a short pause while I source an different transmission. I thought Id move on to the controls. I get a little rubbing of the clutch cable under the tachometer. My hope was to run the clutch through the air-dam. But that causes some slight movement of the clutch lever then fully turned right. I'm going to re-make all the cable controls, as the new levers have a longer distance between cable end and the casing. I'm hoping that better matching the cable and casing length may allow me to run through the air-dam.





Still have some tweaking to do to the foot lever. Would like to get the angles to match between the shift lever, and the foot level. And boy do I hate threading stanless steel.


Al Pritchard
Highlands, NJ

BS175 Racer

Offline old smokey

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Re: Racer Resurrection
« Reply #144 on: January 08, 2018, 06:05:51 PM »
I feel like I'm going to an art exhibit looking at the photos!  8)
'67 350 GTR undergoing repairs with a '75 Yamaha TX500 front end

Offline al_pritchard

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Re: Racer Resurrection
« Reply #145 on: January 16, 2018, 07:30:28 PM »
Weekend Update!

This weekend was all about cables. Throttle and clutch - brake cable should happen next weekend.

Throttle cables were rather simple. Bought two universal throttle kits from Venhill, and assembly was pretty easy. Although I couldn't find an end fitting exactly like ours. I did fing a "Trumpet Nipple" that could be made to work.

A 1" copper end makes a simple crucible to melt the solder.


Nice little birds nest


Quick dunk in the solder, and a little filing


I took the throttle cables out a little far to help avoid any interference when turning.


Would love some thoughts on how to run the clutch cable. Again going to run long to prevent any interference when turning. But the cable always seems to end up under the throttle. Perhaps a loos zip-tie to the fork leg?



And Paul. I still owe you a phone call. Got a little distracted this weekend.
Al Pritchard
Highlands, NJ

BS175 Racer

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Re: Racer Resurrection
« Reply #146 on: January 17, 2018, 11:28:45 AM »
Hi Al.

I need to make some new throttle cables for my current set up (22mm)  and for some 24mm carbs I want to try. Here's some pics of how I run the cables. I usually have a zip tie loose on the clutch, throttle and front brake. I use a throttle off a YZ85 or RM85 to a splitter under the tank. I put some aircraft cable/wire hangers on the frame with big enough loops to let the cables move if they need to.


paul
« Last Edit: January 17, 2018, 11:33:24 AM by bsracer »

Offline al_pritchard

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Re: Racer Resurrection
« Reply #147 on: February 14, 2018, 02:56:43 PM »
Hey Paul,

That looks clean and tidy.

I was a little worried about making the cables. Turns out to not be to hard. I'll look into aircraft cable hangers, might be a good idea.
Al Pritchard
Highlands, NJ

BS175 Racer

Offline al_pritchard

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Re: Racer Resurrection
« Reply #148 on: February 14, 2018, 02:59:04 PM »
Waves of good and not so good progress. The transmission situation is now solved - I still owe you a call Paul but  had to take a cheeper option for a little while.

I managed to find a RS200 transmission with both shafts, drum, and dogs. I was esthetic, everything I needed at a very good price. When the transmission arrived everything looked good. So I started to tare it appart for a good cleaning and oiling. This is where I encountered my first problem. It seems someone had sheered one of the shift pins in the drum. What was worse is it looked like they had jammed the broken pin back into it's hole. Luckily, I was able to walk it out with a pair of mettle sheers. So no harm done.

But the next part was much worse. I had to use a bearing puller to take the small bearing off the countershaft. Unlike the shaft of my 175, where the bearing just slides on and off with ease. Once I got the bearing off the reason for its tight fit was apparent. Someone had been grinding on the end of the shaft!

A week later and I had another countershaft - this one was perfect! So the transmission, and crankshaft are installed, along with pistons. And this time I installed the bearing plate. Everything spins smoothly and shifts as it should - N 1 2 3 4 5.

Also a little cutting and filing was completed on the cases. Making it a little easier to access the carbs, and trimming a little weight. This does leave me in need of a right side carb cover. Don't need one in good shape. The plan is to cut most of it off, and just use the clutch adjustment cover part. And I don't want to cut up the racer covers I have. So if you have one, Im interested.

Ignition is next! Stay tuned.

Driveshaft RS200 on top DT175 on the bottom


5th Gear RS200 on top DT175 on the bottom. Note that this is the early pre November '65 DT175 gear


DT175 countershaft with RS200 driveshaft. Note that the 175 outer gear (5th) sits wide on the 5th countershaft gear. Makes a hell of a racket when you spin the transmission.


The RS200 transmission. Note the 5th gear on both shafts. The driveshaft geer is narrower and more inset than the one on the DT175


Trimmed up clutch cover




Bad RS200 countershaft. Click through to zoom in.



The offending shift pin. Note the part still in the drum.
Al Pritchard
Highlands, NJ

BS175 Racer

Offline al_pritchard

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Re: Racer Resurrection
« Reply #149 on: February 21, 2018, 01:54:17 PM »
Final dry engine assembly underway, and the ignitions is built.

I'v an older engin case, that has an ignition that spins at half speed. And that means I need to use the Dyna S DS1-3. It's configured with the pickups at 90°, and 2 magnets at 180°. The half speed means that we need to trigger the pickups 4 times for every rotation. Being a visual person, I didn't understand it until I assembled it. Then it was cristal clear.

The first step was to turn down the old cam at the end of the generator shaft. Rather than remove the cam from the generator shaft. I removed the shaft from the housing and treated it like a mandrel in the lathe. If you have a generator with "guts" you wont be able to do that - luckily mine doesn't.


Out with the old, and in with the new


Generator and points cam




Fitted


Installed


Still need to make a wiring harness and test this. But I'm ever hopefull.
Al Pritchard
Highlands, NJ

BS175 Racer

Offline OldSwartout

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Re: Racer Resurrection
« Reply #150 on: February 21, 2018, 09:11:42 PM »
Nice work!
Karl Swartout
Mooresville, IN
BS175 Roadracer
BS350 GTR

Offline al_pritchard

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Re: Racer Resurrection
« Reply #151 on: March 07, 2018, 03:49:04 AM »
Thanks Karl. Now lets hope it works.  ;D
Al Pritchard
Highlands, NJ

BS175 Racer

Offline al_pritchard

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Re: Racer Resurrection
« Reply #152 on: March 31, 2018, 06:56:05 PM »
Less of an update on the build, and more of a post for guidance. I'm looking at you Karl, Paul, Jack, others.... The topics for today are electronics and exhaust. Lets start with electronics.

I'm planning on running a relay between the battery and the coils. My question is, should I run two relays with separate feeds to each coil off the positiv terminal? Or is one relay branching to each coil sufficient.

Could also use some guidance on my tachometer. I'm at a loss to find anything on google regarding how to wire it up. It's a 0 to 14,000k Daytona. With a Black, Yellow, Red, and White wire. It currently has the black and yellow wire soldered together. Leading me to believe they are ground? If anyone has any thoughts as I'v never wired up a tachometer. So flying a little blind.

Daytona Tach


My other question is about the exhaust. Opened it up today to look at repacking it. And its empty. Would have thought I'd find some holes in the end of the stinger with some wadding. Is everyone just running a stinger, with a pretend baffle? Or do I need to brake out the drill? And if so, what should I use as baffle material?


Al Pritchard
Highlands, NJ

BS175 Racer

Offline OldSwartout

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Re: Racer Resurrection
« Reply #153 on: March 31, 2018, 09:03:53 PM »
For the silencers to work, there has to be many holes drilled through and it would have to be packed with fiberglass.  You can buy fiberglass packing kits for silencers from many motorcycle suppliers or just use normal building insulation fiberglass.  As is, there is no silencing.  You probably won't be able to run in any sanctioned races that way, nor would you want to.
Karl Swartout
Mooresville, IN
BS175 Roadracer
BS350 GTR

Offline al_pritchard

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Re: Racer Resurrection
« Reply #154 on: April 02, 2018, 11:41:36 AM »
Yea, running with no silencer would not be a good idea. I guess thats part of taking over someone eases project. You never know what you are going to find.

Spent a couple hours on the drill press yesterday. Wont be winning any awards from the profesional fabricators, but once it's packed and sealed no one should be able to tell. I do wonder if it will be enough, so this may change to become an aftermarket silencer in the future. But to get the bike started, and let the neighbors know it runs this should work.




Al Pritchard
Highlands, NJ

BS175 Racer

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Re: Racer Resurrection
« Reply #155 on: April 07, 2018, 11:25:07 AM »
I like that someone had fake silencers! I use to run the same tach. After a crash the needle stuck and I now run a Scitsu. I don't remember (meaning I can't find it) where I put the Daytona tach but I might have the orig paperwork on how to hook it up. I got it from K&L supply and it's from Shindy products. I'll look for the paperwork. I seem to remember there are some switches under a little plug in the back for firing.

Those holes look pretty good for the stinger! I have some Jolly Moto silencers from a RG500 that were shortened only because the bike was crashed and we salvaged them. I was getting a 98db reading at Barber so well within ok sound levels. Yours look pretty short but they should be quieter than the straight stingers.


paul

Offline al_pritchard

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Re: Racer Resurrection
« Reply #156 on: April 09, 2018, 09:59:22 AM »

Yep, thats the tach. I'm hoping that the switches are set correctly, since it came with the bike. But if you happen to find the instructions I would be verry grateful.


 
The silencers are rather short, and I expect that they will not quiet the bike enough. But they will keep me moving forward for now. I'll keep an eye out for something to use in the future.

That big square of material compress down into that little cylinder.


Completed the final - I hope - dry build yesterday. I need to go back and re-read the assembly, and parts manual. When spinning the engine there is a slight amount of resistance every now and again. I don't think it's related to the crank, or pistones. As that assemble spins smoothly without the clutch basket mounted. My thought is ether the clutch, crank gear, or generator gear are not aligned proporly. Or one needs to be shimmed.

I also noticed just a slight looseness of the clutch basket and back plate gear. Should I expect this, or do I need to start looking for a new basket?



Al Pritchard
Highlands, NJ

BS175 Racer

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Re: Racer Resurrection
« Reply #157 on: April 09, 2018, 10:37:22 AM »
I found the wiring diagram. Hope it helps. The clutch gear has rubbers in between where it's riveted together. They can be a bit loose sometimes. Mine seems very loose at the moment so I will double check it. Are you going to paint it blue and white? The guy who made the Bridgestone Katana decals is Ed Morgan in Maryland 301.865.5599.


paul

Offline al_pritchard

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Re: Racer Resurrection
« Reply #158 on: April 09, 2018, 11:13:39 AM »
Okay, I wont worry about the movement then. One less part to buy/fix.

Thanks for digging that up. Will be super helpfull.

I was originally thinking blue and white, like the old factory bikes. But the Leopard Moto3 and NYC Norton blue have me thinking. Not settled yet, but if you have ideas.

Thanks for Eds number. I'll give him a ring as soon as I work out the livery.
Al Pritchard
Highlands, NJ

BS175 Racer

Offline al_pritchard

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Re: Racer Resurrection
« Reply #159 on: April 15, 2018, 01:27:58 PM »
Lets talk batteries

The last big thing to work out is power, and wiring. Would love to here what everyone else is running.

Can a SpeedCall 2.5 Ah (https://shopspeedcell.com/products/legacy-2-5ah-supersport-battery-with-universal-ring-terminal-harness) battery last a race with a comfortable margen? Or should I be looking at a bigger battery?

Was planning a simple wiring harness. Isolating the battery with a fuse (I think I'll need a 30, and not a 15), and a relay. The Dyna S came with a ballest resistor. But I think that would only be needed in the circuit if a generator or alternator were used. Am I right on that?

Al Pritchard
Highlands, NJ

BS175 Racer

 


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